Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

The stuff these forgers put into the hobby will remain forever. How many collectors are honest enough to destroy a jersey for which they have paid thousands of dollars once they discover the item is no good? My guess is not many. The fakes George Martin Lyons sold are still out there and likely turn up from time to time in low grade auctions.

Why would you destroy it? Thats when you first try to sue the dealer and offer it to the feds as evidence in a criminal case. I would never sell it but I wouldn't destroy it.

[otismalibu]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

How many collectors are honest enough to destroy a jersey for which they have paid thousands of dollars once they discover the item is no good? My guess is not many.

True. I would guess that the top two reasons for a quick flip are:

1) make some easy money
2) get out from under a bad item

[DeacDoug]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

The stuff these forgers put into the hobby will remain forever. How many collectors are honest enough to destroy a jersey for which they have paid thousands of dollars once they discover the item is no good? My guess is not many. The fakes George Martin Lyons sold are still out there and likely turn up from time to time in low grade auctions.

[coxfan]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

I'm really glad that the moderators are working to keep the site what it should be: a constructive, friendly exchange of information. Good, accurate game-used info is hard to come by, and arguably 90% of the useful info around comes through postings by collectors on this site.

Negativity, sarcasm, and personal attacks discourage both veteran posters and new people, particularly since most new people are a little shy about their initial posts. I know it's tempting to reply in kind when baited, and I've done so occasionally even though I should know better at my age of 63. But there's usually nothing wrong with just staying silent when somebody gets a little under your skin.

[TriplexXxSports]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

Very good points there Jake. I have to agree. Most of us, if not all of us (myself included) have bought something off of eBay with the thought that "yeah, that looks PRETTY good, or 97% good, as you say. There's 2 minutes left, I'll go ahead and pull the trigger."...

It's tough. Autographs are one of the worst because athletes sigs change over the years. They sign different at events than to do at games, than they do at private signings, than they do jumping out of the car at the grocery store. Ya know? But unless you, yourself got the signature, is there any way to prove, 110%, that the auto you just purchased is real? Do 3rd party authentication firms make mistakes, sure. Do the industry "experts" make mistakes, sure. It's human error. As a buyer, you just need to ensure that YOU are comfortable with the purchase, regardless of what piece of paper, or lavish story about a ball boys nephew, who knows somebody, comes with it.

As with you, if I were to weed out all of my gear to just what was handed to me from a player I wouldn't have a collection, haha. Does that mean what I've owned over the years was all bad? No, I'm 97% sure it's not...

[jake33]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

And let me say this, I'd say conservatively 90% of the world that doesn't collect, care or even get the hobby. - Not including the card collectors. I think that is a very reasonable number and I would actually say, it more likely is 95% or higher. For example how many people out there would think Albert Pujols' game used jersey would be worth the "insane" amount of $800 or a Aaron Rodger's for a whole $1500. The overwhelming thought is "Uh, can't I just go to the mall and get it for $75?"


With that, this hobby is obviously niche.

Honestly, I wear one of my $90-$200 Buccaneers game used jerseys on game days, ones i am keeping and not reselling. On last sunday, someone asked "who is GIBSON #46?"

My response, "Former safety at USC, he was a late round pick for the Bucs in 2000, this jersey was what he wore in his rookie season."

Other guys response, "Yeah right, he wore that, I bet."

--

My point is that when something bad happens in this hobby, it damages all of us. Whenever an article about fraud in the industry it usually goes the same.

1) educate mainstream readers, who are basically pedestrian sports fans. - The same fans that do not collect.
2) give a ridiculous example of the highest priced jersey in the lot that could be fraud just for an extreme example.
3) Use hard fact to make the meat of the article to give credence
4) Some direct quote by the guilty or some insight from industy "experts"
5) present a small counterpoint
6) All and all the article is made to make the industry look bad and make a quick water cooler talk for casual sports fans.

Basically something for gossip and the impression left is that the industry is on par with used car salesmen. And that is all of us.

[dcgreg25]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

Funny, I noticed the posts baiting me weren't deleted.

I cleaned the thread up the best I could on the fly. I deleted multiple posts, not just yours. I am not singling you out and do not care who started it or who baited who, it just needs to stop. I have no agenda other than to provide a reasonable forum to bring collectors together to share knowledge and information. If you have specific comments or posts that you feel violate forum rules, please feel free to bring them to the moderators attention via the Contact Forum Moderator link and I/we will happily look at them and delete them. Thanks.

[jake33]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

My thought beyond all authentication is that you, the collector should be 100% certain in your own unbiased point of view on the item. If you buy something and feel it is 95% chance it was game worn, you yourself have entered into the grey area. Kind of like being "sort of pregnant" or "somewhat illegal." This industry needs to move as much as it can to being black and white. In that process, it would probably expose items in each person's collection out there.

Hey, I got PSA/DNA jerseys and mlb authenticated items in my collection w/ receipts of purchase form NFL and MLB. Am I 100% certain they are legit, even after buying directly from MLB auctions, NFL auctions, my favorite baseball team, and what I believe are photomatches. No, I am not and it is my own FAULT if none would not be legit. The sad thing is with that type of paperwork it would be near impossible to prove any of those items (in my collection) not legit.

As for dealers, I am not sure if they are ever 100% for sure each item they get was game worn. Maybe 97%, but doesn't that leave doubt still, and a conflict of interest. If you are 97% sure a game used item is legit, you should undertake it to sell. I wonder how well it would hold up

"I am 97% sure, I won't divorce you someday."
"I am 97% sure, I wouldn't do a hit and run."
"I am 97% sure, that this is my driver's license."
"I am 97% sure this drink doesn't have rat poison in it."

----

It would also be very interesting if the only things we would have in own collections were items we all only got 1st hand from the athlete.

My colection would consist of a pair of Jonny Gomes 2005 batting gloves, Josh Freeman's hat from the 2011 Packer game, Josh Bidwell's wristband from 2005, and 3 pairs of Buccaneers gloves, after over a decade of efforting in the hobby, that would be it.

[34swtns]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

Funny, I noticed the posts baiting me weren't deleted.

[dcgreg25]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

Why is everyone on here so d*mn negative to each other? Isn't this forum a place to help and educate one another not belittle and degrade everyones views and items?

Cubbs1232, thanks for bringing this up. I have been hammering on this for the past two months deleting posts, entire threads and trying to remind people that if their post does not meet the minimum criteria of an effort to "bring collectors together and help hobbyists educate eachother" it will be deleted.

Most of us are adults, and we need to start acting like it. As members we should take some responsiblity for what we write. Just because someone else says something ingorant, mean-spirited, baiting, etc. it is not an excuse to respond the same way. I am sick and tired of the personal attacks, baiting, etc. and will no longer tolerate it as a moderator. If you don't have something useful to say, please do not say anything at all.

[DeacDoug]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

In memory of "game used" pioneer George Martin Lyons, I hope this guy and his compatriots get hard time. A couple of years at Lewisburg would provide a strong deterrent to future forgers. It is the only way stop these crimes!

[brewcrew]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

Why is everyone on here so d*mn negative to each other? Isn't this forum a place to help and educate one another not belittle and degrade everyones views and items?

Cosign to that. That's why I mostly lurk and hardly ever post, because the tone has been so counterproductive lately. I'm just trying to learn about things here, not start debates.

[cubbs1232]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

Why is everyone on here so d*mn negative to each other? Isn't this forum a place to help and educate one another not belittle and degrade everyones views and items?

[commando]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

This thread is sponsored by Topps, makers of this beautiful Eddie Murray game-used card.

[Eric]

Re: Chicago Tribune JOSports Article

Chicago Tribune followed up with this...
www.chicagotribune.com/news/tribnation/chi-not-so-authentic-nfl-memorabilia-sold-to-bears-among-others-20111214,0,2199400.story
chicagotribune.com

How we reported a story on sports memorabilia

By Jared Hopkins
9:45 AM CST, December 14, 2011



In the Chicago Tribune this week, we report that the exclusive partner to the Chicago Bears for fans to purchase game-used jerseys – those worn by players on the field – is owned by a man with tainted credentials in the memorabilia world.

Jarrod Oldridge pleaded guilty last month to federal charges stemming from four years of doctoring jerseys and profiting illegally by selling them. Oldridge, 37, faces up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
The episode is yet another reminder of the risk when buying expensive memorabilia. The jerseys worn in games by today’s athletes can fetch thousands of dollars; scuffs, stains, tears and other marks of use often drive up the jerseys’ value.

When the Tribune learned the Bears were one of the teams still doing business with Oldridge’s Las Vegas-based company, JO Sports, I began combing through the federal court records. Some of the methods Oldridge employed when he doctored jerseys are described by federal authorities in the records, including his plea agreement. The records allege he altered jerseys by "roughening, scuffing, washing, dirtying" and changing the appearance. Sometimes he’d remove player names from one jersey and put them on another. Jerseys were accompanied by false certificates of authenticity. There is potential for more information to come out when Oldridge is sentenced in May or if he testifies in the related cases (five others are charged).

To put the documents and the legal troubles in context, I spoke to about two dozen people, including collectors, authenticators, dealers and auction houses. I also tracked down the other teams JO Sports contracts with. I talked to the previous company the Bears partnered with to learn how that company’s deal was structured. Meanwhile, the Internet has helped fuel the interest in sports memorabilia, and there are hosts of forums dedicated to the hobby and a growing number of individuals aimed at exposing fraud.

No single entity regulates sports memorabilia. While federal authorities have conducted several investigations into memorabilia fraud, it remains an industry prone to deception and scams. We found the legal troubles didn't cost Oldridge’s company its contract with the Bears; a team spokesman said the criminal activity covered a period before they partnered in 2008. But at least two other NFL teams – the New York Giants and the Baltimore Ravens – are moving to sever ties with the Las Vegas company.
-- Jared Hopkins