1996 Alex Rodriguez Game Used & Signed HR #15 Bat

[3arod13]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

Tony,
It took you forever to find video of arods 20th and then you found video of arods 15th home run game in less than 3 days. Hope it turns out to be the bat.

I think because that game was in Toronto, Canada. Was difficult to find help. Only reason I got help, was because he was part of this forum.

I'm excited, yet nervous. If both games don't show Arod hitting #15 (career #15 or #15 of 1996), I won't be a happy camper.

Tony

[withay]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

I hope you have better luck with the game from Seattle.
My fingers are crossed for you!

[3arod13]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

Definately rooting for you Tony!!

A good point made earlier: No matter what happens (whether it is from a specific homerun or not), the worst case scenario is that you have a very rare A-Rod gamer.

Thanks for keeping us all up to date.

Understand, but don't you think him adding that, and it being proven he didn't, hurts the bat?

But it is the only Rawlings known gamer I know of.

Regard, Tony

[kingjammy24]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

maybe the bats got mixed up. how long after arod hit the HR did he sign the bat? days? weeks? maybe months? who was supposed to keep track of the bats and records? in a way, it reminds me a little of the brett favre debacle where the athlete is just signing whatever is placed in front of them. makes you wonder about all of the other "arod authenticated"/ESM pieces that were sold and attributed to specific dates.

if it turns out not to be the bat used in seattle, then maybe you can just remove the inscription and you're left with a '96 arod gamer.

anyway, tony i think one of the more interesting things that's struck me about all of this is what you've done to get this bat "authenticated". here you've got a somewhat atypical arod rawlings bat and you managed to get a letter from rawlings confirming shipments and dates and have seemingly gone to the ends of the earth to verify that that this particular bat was actually used for the HR noted in the inscription, even managing to get a 12 yr old game on dvd. if this bat had been consigned to any of the major auction houses, i guarantee that none of the "professionals" would've put forth even 1/3 the effort. they would've seen the "arod authenticated" letter and the inscription and plopped that thing into the auction with a big, bombastic description that would've taken arod's inscription as gospel. after all, check out how many arod HR bats AMI has sold over the past few years. do you think they or taube tracked down all of the games to make sure the bat matched the inscription? when mastro recently sold the aaron HR bat, taube said he didn't authenticate the bat as a HR bat, but merely as an aaron gamer. of course, the bat wasn't merely an aaron gamer and had a premium affixed to it because it was a HR bat.

it's a sad thing when the amateurs in this hobby do more work and garner better results than the professionals. the fact that you're not paid for any of this and they are makes an even louder statement.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

Understand, but don't you think him adding that, and it being proven he didn't, hurts the bat?

But it is the only Rawlings known gamer I know of.

Regard, Tony

i don't think it hurts the bat per se as long as it's still a legit arod gamer. i think it reduces the value from what it was given that it's not a HR bat and HR bats tend to fetch a higher price. personally, i think if the inscription is bogus it should be removed. then at a minimum you don't have a bat with a big, fat lie written on it. what'll you have left is a rare rawlings arod gamer. not quite as valuable as it was when it was a HR bat but still a very nice piece and obviously a much better scenario than had you discovered it was an outright fake.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

at least your bat was an atypical rawlings and thus could be differentiated from a LVS on video. what about all those folks out there with arod LVS HR bats.

$13,459 and a PSA 10: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=44730

for over $13k, i hope they didn't just blindly trust the arod inscription.

over $10k: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=42347

over $5k: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=39077

it goes on and on. a nice handful of blond, LVS G174s signed as "game used" with arod letters as well. this one's my fav:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=8973

"Top bat expert, Dave Bushing, blessed this one with his highest praise, the coveted "A-10" grade, and for good reason...Acquired from A-Rod's personal marketing company, with his personal holographic authenticating sticker and an LOA signed by the man himself." i'm curious if, much like the short-sleeved lambert given an 8.5 by mears, they actually have a single photo showing arod swinging a blonde G174 in a game.

fast forward a little, and this blonde G174 is sold as a BP bat for a little over $300:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35793

from one of john taube's articles:
"To some extent, the sports memorabilia business has made a mockery of player provenance. Many of today's stars sell their own equipment making us all familiar with the LOAs signed by the players that accompany items. "Game-used" is the catch phrase for the elusive grade of "10". It is commonplace for modern bats to achieve a grade of 10 based solely on an LOA from the player or the company representing them. However, many bats signed and represented as "game-used" are not what they appear to be. Too many mistakes are made. We have seen bats signed as game-used that have only been used in batting practice, and bats signed with specific Home Run notations that do not match the bat being used by the player when viewing the game film. We have also seen promotional model bats with bogus use signed off as having been game-used by the player, and even bats that have seen no use at all, signed as having been game-used. Believe us, you name it and we've seen it. All this adds up to a lack of credibility for the provenance letter that accompanies some of today's player's bats, and this sometimes even includes the LOA's signed by the players themselves!"

rudy.

[BULBUS]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

Maybe Arod used the bat in the Toronto game, but just not to hit the homerun. I hope once you get the videos, it will clear things up. This is some serious detective work!

[GameBats]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

Tony,

I'm pulling for you. I hope the new video produces a positive result. I've heard similar stories over and over and have yet to hear of a happy ending. I will be delighted to read you're the first. Unfortunately, I think the "game used" value of the bat will be little more than $0 without any photo/video of AROD utilizing a Rawlings bat. Does such a photo or video exist?


John

[3arod13]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

First, I want to say thanks for all the support and wishes that this turns out good for me. Although I know many of you don't think so, based on Arod's game used habits, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Prior to me obtaining my first game used bat, a 1993 Juan Gonzalez Gamer back in 1993, I only collected sports cards and autographs. Only over the past few years, since finding GUU, did I find myself interested in game used stuff. Especially considering what the baseball card hobby turned into with all the inserts and how expensive the hobby became. I collected autographs and sports cards for more than 25 years.

When I bought the Rawlings bat, here's what I considered. I knew Arod did use Rawlings early in his career. I knew a Rawlings bat was rare. I knew the signature was from 1996. In addition to the documentation that game with the bat, including a letter signed by Arod, I felt a less of a chance that in Arod's first year, he would be doing what many consider him doing today. With that said, I felt good about the bat. But even with all that, I knew I would push forward to find proof. By the way, GUU helped me do that. As you always say...over and over...DO YOU HOMEWORK!

When it's all said and done, I really hope all this works out.

Regards, Tony

[Bondsgloves]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

I think we are all missing the point. That bat may not be what is was sold to be. Tony was mislead and the bat is not as significant as once thought. Regardless if its rare being an early rawlings, the bat is worth less than what it should of been worth today! No doubt you have a great bat, but there is certainly some kind of loss in value. Tony I feel for you, not only is this a financial but an emotional let down to a degree. You bought this bat not just because he's your favorite player but as an investment as well.
If that bat does not match the game in Toronto you have a legitmate reason to seek some kind of compensation. I think this is similar to having purchased a forged signature, you thought when you purchased the item it was one thing and now its not what you were told it was when purchased.

The guy makes millions and even more off selling hos equipment. He should be held accountable for what he's signing his name to.

[3arod13]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

I think we are all missing the point. That bat may not be what is was sold to be. Tony was mislead and the bat is not as significant as once thought. Regardless if its rare being an early rawlings, the bat is worth less than what it should of been worth today! No doubt you have a great bat, but there is certainly some kind of loss in value. Tony I feel for you, not only is this a financial but an emotional let down to a degree. You bought this bat not just because he's your favorite player but as an investment as well.
If that bat does not match the game in Toronto you have a legitmate reason to seek some kind of compensation. I think this is similar to having purchased a forged signature, you thought when you purchased the item it was one thing and now its not what you were told it was when purchased.

The guy makes millions and even more off selling hos equipment. He should be held accountable for what he's signing his name to.

Well said! You're correct...because Arod is my favorite player, and as an investment.

When Monday comes, I will view the video of the game between the Boston Red Sox at Seattle Mariners on 31 May 1996,. If it shows that Arod didn't us a Rawlings to hit career HR #15 in this game, this provides factual visual proof that Arod didn't use a Rawlings bat to hit either Career HR #15 or HR #15 of 1996. To me, this will be more than devistating to me!

As I stated before, there's no question Arod signed this bat in 1996. However, he signed the LOA when he was with the Texas Rangers, years later. I believe that this bat was sent to Arod Authentic for authentication. The autheticators then may have assumed the HR inscription was for his 15th HR in 1996, looked it up where he would have hit that HR, put the letter together, and Arod signed it. Problem for Arod is, he signed this LOA which is very specific in details. When, where, and who he hit the HR off of.

I truly hope when I view the video on Monday, it shows Arod hit career HR #15 in this game. I really do. I know many don't care for Arod. However, I really hope this works out. I have researched finding a video or picture of Arod using a Rawlings bat, and all has been unsuccessful. Many know he did use Rawlings early in his career. However, there is just no visual proof to date.

I do agree that if it is proven by both videos that Arod didn't hit HR #15 in either game, Arod should make every effort to make this right. You can't argue with solid evidence like this. A letter signed by Arod, and two videos to show the LOA is not true. Whether Arod Authentic staff did the research for the LOA, which may be proven wrong, Arod put his name on the LOA, and to me he should be held accountable.

I will wait for Monday to view the video and see what the result are. I will also tell you that I have been contacted by someone who wants to do a story about this situation. Not sure if it's someone who is part of this forum, or if someone in this forum contacted them about this situation.
In the end, I would prefer that this all works out with the video on Monday.

Oh, and I would like to say kudos to Troy at MEARS. Although I wasn't happy with the statement he put in the LOA for this bat, it may turn out why exactly Troy did so. He was concerned that if someday a photo or video did show up and proved Arod didn't use a Rawlings in the game at Toronto, it would come back on him. In this case, he may have been just right. So kudos to Troy at MEARS.

On the other hand, I agree with Rudy. The authentication process has to be more than just going to Corbis, Gettyimages, etc. to find a photo match. And if you don't, you stop there. If you're going to charge people for researching and authenticating their items, then do the work no matter what it takes.

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

DVD arrived at my local FEDEX. Called, but they said it's scheduled for Monday delivery. BUMMER!


Date/Time

Activity

Location

Details

Dec 20, 2008 7:18 AM

At local FedEx facility

NORFOLK, VA



7:18 AM

At local FedEx facility

NORFOLK, VA

Package not due for delivery

6:32 AM

At dest sort facility

NORFOLK, VA



5:03 AM

Departed FedEx location

MEMPHIS, TN



Dec 19, 2008 6:38 PM

Left FedEx origin facility

SEATTLE, WA



5:46 PM

Picked up

SEATTLE, WA

[GameBats]

Re: Update on my 1996 Alex Rodriguez Rawlings Game Used Bat

Call FedEx and tell them you're picking it up. They will allow you to come and get it. If it's already on the truck you can pick it up when the truck gets back later today.

[3arod13]

Re: Looking for video or photo - $200 to you if you find it

1) i don't think the pics of arod in mid-swing are of much use. it's clear that the roof is closed during that game. when the roof is closed, they turn the stadium lights on and those things are pretty massive. i think, as andrew lang stated, there's definitely light being reflected off the bat. you can see light being reflected all over the place in those photos from the arod's helmet to some bald guys in the crowd.

2) what should be looked for is the white rawlings ring. i've posted some pics. in the third pic, you can see a part of the label yet you can also see there's no white ring around it.

my personal opinion, from the pics presented here, is that it's a LVS. if that's really the case, then that really, really sucks. ultimately though, i guess i'd rather know the truth even if it's bad. maybe arod just got the HR number mixed up? personally, i'd look for pics of HRs #14, 15, and 17. maybe he just got the bats mixed up.







rudy.

Rudy,

No Ring? What does that refer to?

Tony

[kingjammy24]

Re: Looking for video or photo - $200 to you if you find it

Rudy,

No Ring? What does that refer to?

Tony

tony

ring = the "ring" on rawlings bats of that era. on your bat the "rawlings" label has a white ring around it. it goes all the way around the bat and is only dissected by the "rawlings label". when looking at footage, you should be able to see this white ring. in the third photo i posted, you can clearly see half the label yet there's no white ring going around it as would be seen with your rawlings bat.

rudy.