Won an auction - now I need your opinions

[ndevlin]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Calm down, I see both sides.

That being said, let's say I bought a jersey from Goldin last yr in their auction that had a good amount of dirt on the front. Well, this year I planned on selling it and when I got it out, it smelt like crap so I washed it, which happened to wash out the dirt stains. I go ahead and sell it to you as is without mentioning anything. Then, 2 days later you search and find the listing of the jersey sold last yr in Goldin but it's missing the dirt stains in the front. So now you have auction #1(jersey with dirt stains), and auction #2(jersey with no stains). How would you feel about that? Pissed that I didnt tell you I washed it after I bought it from auction #1, or pissed you didn't do your hw before you purchased it in auction #2?

[SBRBACK]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Calm down, I see both sides.

That being said, let's say I bought a jersey from Goldin last yr in their auction that had a good amount of dirt on the front. Well, this year I planned on selling it and when I got it out, it smelt like crap so I washed it, which happened to wash out the dirt stains. I go ahead and sell it to you as is without mentioning anything. Then, 2 days later you search and find the listing of the jersey sold last yr in Goldin but it's missing the dirt stains in the front. So now you have auction #1(jersey with dirt stains), and auction #2(jersey with no stains). How would you feel about that? Pissed that I didnt tell you I washed it after I bought it from auction #1, or pissed you didn't do your hw before you purchased it in auction #2?

Honestly, as long as it is a game used jersey with authentication backing it up I would be fine. Even if I was okay with a smelly jersey I might be disappointed that I received it with less usage than when it came off the field but as long as the seller didn't put the before photos to attract me as a buyer then I have the responsibility.

[Jim65]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

To me the jersey was altered and seller should have stated as such. It doesn't sound like seller was being deceptive but he should learn a lesson from this.

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to this thread (including the seller and those who disagree with me). The seller and I have mutually agreed to cancel this transaction. I should be receiving the cancel request shortly. Again, thank you. Alan

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to this thread (including the seller and those who disagree with me). The seller and I have mutually agreed to cancel this transaction. I should be receiving the cancel request shortly. Again, thank you. Alan

I would also like to thank the forum members who emailed me in lieu of posting in this thread. I appreciate your support.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

I would also like to thank the forum members who emailed me in lieu of posting in this thread. I appreciate your support.

After seeing the comments between you and the seller, I would like to say that I wouldn't fault you with not wanting to complete the transaction. This has nothing to do with the item, but rather entirely a result of the seller's attitude.

[G1X]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

I really didn't want to jump in, but I just can't resist. I agree with the Seller that the jersey is still game-worn. Saying that washing a jersey somehow alters it would mean that every 50-plus year old durene jersey, or just about any 20th century in my collection - and in all of your collections as well - are altered as the teams washed the jerseys after the last game, and some collectors might wash their jerseys from time-to-time for various reasons. I will let all of you mull over the thought of having a collection full of washed jerseys - HORRORS

Some collectors like dirty, stinky jerseys, and some can't stand to smell another person's funk and/or have a dirty jersey sitting in their collection. Some collectors just don't care if someone washed the jersey as long as they are convinced that it is what it supposed to be. For others, it is a very big deal and they see it as being an altered jersey. At the end of the day, it's all a matter of personal taste and setting your own parameters of what you collect. If washing a jersey is a big deal to you, then ask the question. To use an example, it is much like collecting flannel baseball jerseys. If you don't like flannel jerseys with number changes and/or restorations (not uncommon on flannels), you ask that question upfront. It's not always the case of a seller being dishonest or trying to hide something. Sometimes, they just don't know, and sometimes they see it as not being a big deal because it is not a big deal to them (and never gave it much thought as being a big deal to someone else). And sometimes, things are simply missed.

Here's my two-cents worth on the transaction being discussed. The Seller doesn't like a pungent jersey in his house. He washed the jersey. That is certainly no crime. For him, it made sense and he did not see it as a big deal (as it was not a big deal to him), so he didn't say anything. Besides, it appears that he listed photos of the jersey where it was apparent that it had been washed when compared to previous photos. In my humble opinion, he was not trying to hide anything or deceive anyone.

However, for the Buyer, having the dirt and stink is a big deal. He wanted an unwashed jersey, and it sounds like he would not have bid had he known that fact. The Buyer ended up being unhappy with the purchase for a valid reason. Simple solution to this whole affair - have a pleasant conversation and ask for a refund. The Seller should not hesitate as you always want to be sure that your customer is happy with the item they purchased. It sounds like this is what happened. End of story.

Finally, all of this begs this one final question. Since 99.99% of 20th century jerseys have been washed, are Sellers obligated to state this fact in their listings? I don't think so . . .

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Mark, I agree with 99 percent of what you are saying. I don't think he was trying to deceive me. In his listing he said the jersey was full of hit marks and paint transfers, etc. I assumed that meant he left it in tact from the auction during which he had acquired it. From the auction he acquired it, I could only find one picture still remaining online. I had known about the original auction when it happened, I just didn't have money to buy it any other time it was for sale. Now I had the money. I offered about 20 percent more than he bought it for at auction figuring he could make a little money and I could get the jersey for a fair price. After he agreed I was gathering all the online pictures i could find for the item. I downloaded his ebay photos and the single photo from the other auction. When I compared those photos, I noticed that some marks were no longer on the jersey. That's when I politely ask what happened. He politely responded that he washed it. I politely responded that I would need to cancel the purchase because he didnt disclose that he washed it. I think that falls under SNAD. That's just my opinion. He responded by calling me a time waster and a moron. I responded in part by making a flippant comment that he probably wore it too and didn't disclose that fact. I called the whole thing a joke. He called me a joke boy and said that he was sorry that I could stick my nose in the player's musk. I posted an anonymous opinion question on here. I didn't want to out the auction or the seller. He told me he appreciated that. He said he would read the thread. We had our discussion on here and then we agreed to cancel the transaction which still hasnt happened btw. That's a nice recap for everyone who needs one.

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

For reference, the seller cancelled the transaction and it ended amicably. If you want to respond to this thread some more re: the concept of washing game worn jerseys and the perceived diminishing of value of them after doing so, please feel free as I think this was a fun debate.

[jbean023]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Finally, all of this begs this one final question. Since 99.99% of 20th century jerseys have been washed, are Sellers obligated to state this fact in their listings? I don't think so . . .

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

If you washed it personally than yes 100% you are obligated.

[G1X]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

If you washed it personally than yes 100% you are obligated.

Most collectors I know who collect older stuff (prior to the "unwashed era") just don't get too hung up on this issue. The jersey was washed by the team, so what if it gets washed again? Who cares? You and others might, and that's fine as we all have the right to set our own parameters and comfort level, but I along with a lot of other collectors just don't care.

I have jerseys in my collection that I originally obtained over 40 years ago. To be honest, I might not necessarily recall that I washed a few of them back in the 1980s or '90s. It's jsut not that important in the grand scheme of things as the jersey is what it is - once used in a game a very long time ago. Washing such a jersey that was already washed to begin with doesn't change a thing.

I collect old durene NFL jerseys and WFL jerseys (defunct league from 1974/75). These are hard to find to begin with, so I am not the least bit concerned whether the seller or anyone else has washed the jersey (or worn it) over the past half century. I have already made the assumption that it most likely has been washed or worn at some point over the years.

Speaking only for myself, if a jersey comes into my house and smells like cigarette smoke, a Lab Retriever, or cologne, I'm probably going to wash it. When you buy old stuff, most collectors I know make the assumption that the jersey might have been washed by a collector along the way, and someone has probably worn it as well. I just don't think that it is on the radar screen of most collectors.

As I stated in my previous post, if those sort of issues are a concern to anyone, then you should ask before making the purchase. Find out if Seller the has worn the jersey, washed it, etc. While it may be your concern, and I respect your opinion on the matter, it is not my concern nor the concern of most collectors I've dealt with over the past 40+ years.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[G1X]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

P.S. Don't get me wrong - if you in any manner change the appearance of a jersey - washing dirt from an "unwashed jersey", washing a jersey so many times that it fades, crinkles the numbers, or cracks the numbers (screened-on numbers) etc., then you should by all means disclose that sort of thing right up front.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Most collectors I know who collect older stuff (prior to the "unwashed era") just don't get too hung up on this issue. The jersey was washed by the team, so what if it gets washed again? Who cares? You and others might, and that's fine as we all have the right to set our own parameters and comfort level, but I along with a lot of other collectors just don't care.

I have jerseys in my collection that I originally obtained over 40 years ago. To be honest, I might not necessarily recall that I washed a few of them back in the 1980s or '90s. It's jsut not that important in the grand scheme of things as the jersey is what it is - once used in a game a very long time ago. Washing such a jersey that was already washed to begin with doesn't change a thing.

I collect old durene NFL jerseys and WFL jerseys (defunct league from 1974/75). These are hard to find to begin with, so I am not the least bit concerned whether the seller or anyone else has washed the jersey (or worn it) over the past half century. I have already made the assumption that it most likely has been washed or worn at some point over the years.

Speaking only for myself, if a jersey comes into my house and smells like cigarette smoke, a Lab Retriever, or cologne, I'm probably going to wash it. When you buy old stuff, most collectors I know make the assumption that the jersey might have been washed by a collector along the way, and someone has probably worn it as well. I just don't think that it is on the radar screen of most collectors.

As I stated in my previous post, if those sort of issues are a concern to anyone, then you should ask before making the purchase. Find out if Seller the has worn the jersey, washed it, etc. While it may be your concern, and I respect your opinion on the matter, it is not my concern nor the concern of most collectors I've dealt with over the past 40+ years.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

+1

Dave Miedema

[jbean023]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

P.S. Don't get me wrong - if you in any manner change the appearance of a jersey - washing dirt from an "unwashed jersey", washing a jersey so many times that it fades, crinkles the numbers, or cracks the numbers (screened-on numbers) etc., then you should by all means disclose that sort of thing right up front.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

That's what we are discussing here.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

P.S. Don't get me wrong - if you in any manner change the appearance of a jersey - washing dirt from an "unwashed jersey", washing a jersey so many times that it fades, crinkles the numbers, or cracks the numbers (screened-on numbers) etc., then you should by all means disclose that sort of thing right up front.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

That's what we are discussing here.

I'm under the impression that Mark meant jerseys that were never washed. My understanding was the jersey in question was one used for more than a single game, and the assumption was the team washed it before the seller washed it.

I realize that might seem like semantics, but that's how I read it.