Increase in people flipping jerseys?

[mr.miracle]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

You are exactly right on all counts there Brett. I don't buy nearly as much from the Os as I used to because of the Frankenstein you mention. His shady practices (as I've noted in another thread) of quoting higher prices when someone is asking about a specific item on the phone or email, even though it was in the store for a lower price all season, and the fact that he has gone kinda crazy with the pricing in there even though the supply is much higher thanever before have all turned me off. Given that it takes them forever to move anything is a testament to this. Whenever you go in the store its basically the same stuff almost every game. Its ashame, I still love the hobby, but its getting more and more frustrating to try and deal with the source of the items. I am with you though, I really cant see how a lot of money is to be made flipping things won on MLB auctions, unless you luck out and get a player who is still a relative unknown and then they explode on the scene.

When Andrew and I provided the "Powers That Be" with our opinions and expertise if you will, regarding the whole game used market, pricing and basically how to start the program from scratch, we thought the end product would be drastically different then it ended up being. Andrew has been doing this forever, he has forgotten more about this business than most will ever know. "The Powers That Be" that work for the team had zero experience doing any of this, none, zilch, nada. We laid out a roadmap and they took it and ran and it is now what you see today. It was extremely frustrating hearing fans blame Andrew or Todd or myself as we were shot down on pricing in most cases and had to follow what we were given. Even the whole flood the market strategy was beyond frustrating when we were originally told and discussed pulling a select number of jersey's per player per season period and that certainly did not happen.

It is frustrating for you and many others. Believe me, the program as originally laid out was to give the loyal fans of Baltimore true access to the game used in a reasonably affordable fashion without flooding the market. What it shifted to and became was a whole other entity.

I certainly be no means claim to be an expert on game used anything, but I have done this long enough to know that you need to provide fair, truthful and transparent business practices based on honesty and treating the customers right. Andrew, Todd and I developed a very loyal customer base that we enjoyed working with during our tenure in Baltimore. I am sorry to hear that your having all this difficulty now, I have heard from a number of our loyal customers that they have had similar issues sadly.

[Oriolesfan29]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

When we started the game worn program at Camden Yards the plan was to only pull jerseys specifically ordered by a customer in advance or day of game or if something spectacular occurred in the game and limit to around 5 to 7 per player max per year.

Unfortunately we created Frankenstein as the Director of the program completely lost his mind and would not listen to anything Andrew or I suggested once he felt their was money to be made, then why not flood the market year over year.

What you now have is the above mentioned issue. The everyday blue collar fan is priced completely out of this market and this continuous over-saturation will systematically devalue these items over time.

You are exactly right on all counts there Brett. I don't buy nearly as much from the Os as I used to because of the Frankenstein you mention. His shady practices (as I've noted in another thread) of quoting higher prices when someone is asking about a specific item on the phone or email, even though it was in the store for a lower price all season, and the fact that he has gone kinda crazy with the pricing in there even though the supply is much higher thanever before have all turned me off. Given that it takes them forever to move anything is a testament to this. Whenever you go in the store its basically the same stuff almost every game. Its ashame, I still love the hobby, but its getting more and more frustrating to try and deal with the source of the items. I am with you though, I really cant see how a lot of money is to be made flipping things won on MLB auctions, unless you luck out and get a player who is still a relative unknown and then they explode on the scene.

[yanks12025]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

It is frustrating when you want an item, someone out bids you, and then it's an insane amount of ebay. However, if they're willing to take the risk, it is what it is...I mean someone could end up sitting on a jersey for a long time or taking a significant loss if the player isn't popular anymore or gets traded. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay...I know I've overpaid for a ton of my items like buying the 1st year in brooklyn...but I am keeping it in my collection. What frustrates me more is when people try to pass an item off as game used or issued when it isn't or when someone lists an auction and starts a new ebay account to jack up the price. I see this from sellers when an item sits..then they list it for auction...someone with 0 feedback wins and shortly after it is relisted at the old buy it now price.

So if you want the item the bid more and win it. If not the other person wanted it more b

[memorabiliaunlimited]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

and there hasnt been another adam jones helmet on the market since. someone will eventually want it, and if not, i have no problem hanging on to it. i dont consider that "stuck" with an item - when it can be kept and displayed beautifully in the meantime. people get so fixed on the list price, when every listing says "price is negotiable". most of the MLB auction stuff moves on the resale. it is quite easy to pick out the items that are too overpriced or oversupplied, and then stay away from those. i have won countless items on MLB auctions that have sold within a few weeks of purchase - MLB auction prices are not the end-all-be-all. the alex guerrero mothers day gear i have, that i would consider being stuck with - i gambled, and will lose on it. it happens in business, but when you are right more than you are wrong, its OK.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Most of the stuff being flipped is "manufactured memorabilia" meaning it was worn or used with the intention winding up on the collecting market. Will be very interesting to see what this stuff is worth a decade or two from now. My team is the braves and braves jerseys used to be scarce. Vintage jerseys and jerseys from the 1990's are relatively scarce now. However they are simply burning through too many sets of jerseys now for these things to be all that collectible in the furture. I dont really care anyway but the real pain is getting them from the team into collectors hands. The team wants 1k for freddie freeman jerseys. So somebody has to pay up to get one but once a freeman jersey enters the hobby good luck getting 750 for one. Fat chance at 1k unless its something really cool or unique. These memorabilia jerseys are not really rare and the teams could care less about supply. They crank them out by the bushel every season. Common braves players going through 30 jerseys a year is nuts. Its probably the same hassle with many other teams nowadays.

When we started the game worn program at Camden Yards the plan was to only pull jerseys specifically ordered by a customer in advance or day of game or if something spectacular occurred in the game and limit to around 5 to 7 per player max per year.

Unfortunately we created Frankenstein as the Director of the program completely lost his mind and would not listen to anything Andrew or I suggested once he felt their was money to be made, then why not flood the market year over year.

What you now have is the above mentioned issue. The everyday blue collar fan is priced completely out of this market and this continuous over-saturation will systematically devalue these items over time.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I know two examples I've seen recently are the Manny Machado and Carlos Correa game used St Patrick's day jerseys. Somehow the seller got complete pics of the Manny jersey less than 24 hours after it sold, I'm not even sure how that's possible. It is definitely annoying though I agree. The Correa one is listed for $8K and it sold for way less than half that.

Patrick that seller of the Manny St Patty has been buying up Machado game used in the past 10 to 12 months like someone is having a fire sale, the only problem is, they are not. These jerseys are or were still regularly selling off MLB auctions or direct from the team at $2500 to $3000 plus so no discounts there.

How in the world would anybody break even on ebay off a Machado at those price points much less make any money on them it is simply baffling to me.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

I agree people can do what they want. I just fail to see the business savvy or acumen involved in purchasing items on MLB Auctions and trying to resell immediately. I routinely see items sell on MLB auctions for far more than anyone can ever get on eBay. The entire thought process seems backward. When these items are listed for a year + I don't see how this practice can be seen as successful. At some point you need to realize the price is too high and perhaps your business plan is flawed. Yet these same sellers do this repeatedly and just relist over and over again.

I for one don't have the disposable income to just buy this stuff and let it sit for years and years at an outrageous price that no one will pay. Again people are free to do what they want, I just don't see the upside to this practice in the current market environment.

As a collector who has primarily focused on the Baltimore Orioles for the past 20 plus years, I have intimate 1st hand knowledge of how the Orioles now sell and market their game used compared to as recently as 5 years ago when everything either funneled through Fan Fest unauthenticated or went out the back door. I can honestly say I too am just dumbfounded by some of the insanity that now takes place with attempting to flip items. I get it, supply demand, free market etc. if you can make some money then more power to you. What amazes me is that there is for instance a seller on ebay now from the Baltimore area that regularly acquires a very very heavy supply of Manny Machado game used bats, jersey's, game used balls, batting helmets, etc. I personally have had in the past 2 or 3 years several Machado game used bats and bases, balls etc. that were MLB authenticated, signed, photomatched, etc. that I was selling for literally 1/3rd or less of the price that this seller is charging and I could not move a single one of these items, in 2 or 3 years, just sitting relisting on ebay over and over again. As Sprint mentions above, unless someone has Bill Gates money, how in the world is this sound business practice. The prices that this seller is paying to acquire these items and what he is looking to flip them for is in some cases a 1000% markup or more which is simply beyond insane. Many of the items carry zero authentication he is selling and quite honestly Manny could win the next 5 consecutive AL MVP awards and he would still never see the prices he is asking. I don't know if he has ever sold more than one of these items. We are talking about game used Machado hits that are being purchased for $150.00 and being sold for $5000 or more.

This strategy just makes zero sense on any level. As someone who has worked in various levels of retail for over 25 years, you strive at all cost to move product. If it is dying on your shelves your not making money period.
These folks can mark this stuff up 10,000% if they so choose. They won't ever sell it and it makes zero sense on any level to me but you see this strategy play out time and time again. I am just stunned too that people say they never take a loss utilizing the flip strategy from MLB or NFL auctions direct to ebay. I can honestly say in the past 2 to 4 years I have seen a complete about face probably due to this market saturation as I rarely if ever come close to getting my money back out of anything I sell on ebay. 9 out of 10 times in the past 2 or 3 years I am often taking what amounts to a 20 to 30 or even 40% loss on every single game used item I sell. How others are bucking this trend is beyond me, I would really love to know.

I just don't get how people are spending $1000's on these items and letting them sit on ebay marked up 5 or 10x's and they just sit year after year after year. Especially given the fact that there is so much market volatility that more often than not your items over the long haul on the newer game used from the past 2 - 4 years stand a reasonable chance over the long haul to drastically reduce in value given the sheer over-saturation of the market on all this stuff.

If anyone wants to kindly volunteer some strategies on selling game used on ebay today where you can simply break even on the sale I am all ears. I can get this stuff signed and inscribed with unique HR inscriptions, photomatched to the HR, MLB Auth, JSA Auth, does not matter, it's nearly impossible to come close to breaking even which is why I am pretty much out of the game used business anymore.

[Juicyfruit66]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Flipping to profit can get risky, I'd only do it for something I knew was totally underpriced. My favorite thing to do is sell stuff I don't really need in my collection but bought a few years ago and sell it for around same price to make money for new stuff. My collection kind of regenerates itself, as it grows and evolves I realize what's good and what's not. My game used bat collection was basically paid for by my old Russell and Rawlings jersey collection.

[CPuente57]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Me personally, I never buy with the intention to flip, when I list items, it's basically stuff that if the price was right I'd sell, but if I can't get the price I want, I have no problem keeping it in my collection. I never expect the list price (that's why there is a best offer option) but it's just there at a starting point. I usually just look to break even if I can (which I know in the game used market is easier said than done).

[joshmiller0]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

It is frustrating when you want an item, someone out bids you, and then it's an insane amount of ebay. However, if they're willing to take the risk, it is what it is...I mean someone could end up sitting on a jersey for a long time or taking a significant loss if the player isn't popular anymore or gets traded. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay...I know I've overpaid for a ton of my items like buying the 1st year in brooklyn...but I am keeping it in my collection. What frustrates me more is when people try to pass an item off as game used or issued when it isn't or when someone lists an auction and starts a new ebay account to jack up the price. I see this from sellers when an item sits..then they list it for auction...someone with 0 feedback wins and shortly after it is relisted at the old buy it now price.

[Juicyfruit66]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I also don't see a problem with a collector going through auctions and seeing a steal of a deal for a team or player he doesn't collect, buying it to flip to buy stuff he DOES collect. I think he'd be a smart guy, smart business .

[Juicyfruit66]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I'm pretty new to the hobby and have focused on my old home team the Montreal Expos. Luckily , the franchise died before collecting became such a cash cow for the MLB so all the stuff I buy is actually relatively rare compared to the hundreds of items churned out now by the MLB authenticators. I think some people buying all the hologrammed stuff the MLB rolls out en mass may end up feeling like card collectors felt in the 90s. It just looks like they are "creating" memorabilia instead of things actually being memorabilia. Like the other day I bought a Bryn Smith rookie jersey and you can tell its seen many a game, has a few stories to tell. Can the same be said about the jersey a 2016 star player wire once to steal one base? Food for thought. In the end I collect for the love of my old team and not for profit.

[sprint23]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

I agree people can do what they want. I just fail to see the business savvy or acumen involved in purchasing items on MLB Auctions and trying to resell immediately. I routinely see items sell on MLB auctions for far more than anyone can ever get on eBay. The entire thought process seems backward. When these items are listed for a year + I don't see how this practice can be seen as successful. At some point you need to realize the price is too high and perhaps your business plan is flawed. Yet these same sellers do this repeatedly and just relist over and over again.

I for one don't have the disposable income to just buy this stuff and let it sit for years and years at an outrageous price that no one will pay. Again people are free to do what they want, I just don't see the upside to this practice in the current market environment.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Some teams had memorabilia programs in the early 1990's. The braves would sell every regular season jersey and bp jersey in one lot to someone who offered the most and that person in turn would sell them in a full page ad in Sports Collectos digest. You got all the jerseys and one copy of a letter from the braves to go with the jerseys. Dave Miedema would remember those braves bulk sales in sports collectors digest. You had to sell the stars for alot because you had to buy the common players to get them even the bat boy jerseys. Even then, there were only three or four sets so there was a good balance between supply and demand. Not anymore.30 or 40 jerseys for one player in a single season is nuts. Greed has taken over now at least with braves items. The real collectible braves jerseys in this hobby were the ones never meant to be collectible in the first place. The same can be said for alot of different teams. People can do as they wish. This is after all a hobby. If they think their mass produced derrick rose or freddie freeman jerseys are going to be rare and sought after 20 years from now they may quite mistaken.

You're right...I do remeber the Braves sales. Equipment Manager Bill Acrie used to usually sell them to two area hobbyists, Doak Ewing (now of Rare Sportsfilms fame) and Phil Schafer. They, in turn would offer them to collectors. This, of course, was back in the day when teams routinely sold unneeded GU equipment to various dealers in the hobby. There's very little of that now what with the teams, and even some players, seeing the value and demand of GU items. The current middlemen appear to be downsized versions of what places like Ball Park Heroes, Ball Four Sports, Sports Warehouse, and others were in the 1990s.

Dave Miedema

[paul457]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

As I stated in another thread about people complaining about flippers is that NOT every collector sees EVERY auction. So just because an item in one auction sells for XXX amount, that DOESN'T mean that its worth only that price.

So pretty much, if a Ruth game used bat is listed for sale and for some odd reason it sells for only $1,000. Is it only worth $1,000 because thats what it sold for at auction.

That's the exception, not the rule. Most people have access to the Internet...

I have no problem with people flipping, if you can make a profit off of it then go for it. Most of the examples I have seen personally are laughable.