Increase in people flipping jerseys?

[sportscrazy13]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I want to chime in on the Orioles program topic. I own a Machado HR jersey, his 2013 home helmet, a single, double, triple, and HR ball. All was purchased back when Andrew and Brett ran the Orioles game used stuff. They were both a pleasure to deal with and were great with the pricing.

I don't bother anymore sense the new O's program wants an arm and a leg for everything they have. I tried bidding on some Machado stuff last year on mlb auctions, but it seemed like there was some shill bidding going on.

[Thinking]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I agree the Orioles are ridiculous with their MLB online auctions. Always a reserve that is higher than true worth of the item.

Not all teams are like that -- thankfully.

Only Orioles items I have ever been able to buy was from Brett (Adam Jones auto'd HR bat).

I doubt I will ever buy directly from the O's.

[grandeleague]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

Clueless? Some of the people who responded in this thread have forgotten more about their team's game used material than most people will ever know. Very few people can recite at the drop of a dime an accurate and informative history of a teams game used material.

[Oriolesfan29]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

I think you are missing the point. We all have sold things we have bought, I know I have. I generally have a rule that I will not buy anything I don't think I can break even on down the road if I chose to sell it, unless for special occasions such as a sentimental piece or a white whale piece. This rule has usually served me well as I have sold many of my items either at or above cost when that time came.

I think the point of this thread is more to the person who buys strictly to flip at insane money and how that strategy typically doesn't work, or could be seen as taking advantage of someone. As has been documented most of these items sit on the Museum of eBay never, or rarely, to be sold.

I have personally found this thread to be very insightful, especially hearing from collectors of different teams. I unfortunately am stuck with the Os game used department if I want something for the most part, which has increasingly been more difficult since the end of 2014.

In summary I don't have a problem with someone trying to make a buck, its just interesting that people are taking the avenues that they are to flip these jerseys. The encouraging thing to me is I think the buyers out there are more informed than ever which is why there aren't too many people paying the insane, above MLB auctions, prices on things. I know I thoroughly research most of my buys and am constantly looking at auction sites and online sources to get a feel for what things are worth. I too am of the opinion that this bubble will burst at some point, and hopefully I am not holding too many pieces that I will take a huge hit on.

[Samets]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

How are we "people" clueless?

Go ahead and tell me how the flipper makes the world a better place by allowing a wider audience to buy something...

[memorabiliaunlimited]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

When the program started with the Orioles the team was only going to pull jerseys requested and paid for by customers during specific games. Jones first jersey (which I believe I owned at one time) was $1,000. Then Davis got on his streak and the Manny hype began. Their jerseys went to $1,500... then $2,000 and beyond. At one point they sold a Davis jersey for $5,000.

They (the team) also began pulling jerseys, bases, etc for any and all accomplishments (ie. A 3-hit game, a HR, etc.). They also found the avenue of MLB Auctions to use to sell these items. Soon the store in the stadium was being given less and less access to stuff so it could go to the auction site. At first this was successful for the team but as supply increased and demand increased soon Davis and Jones jerseys would sit on the site for months and months at a time without sale because the team imposed reserve was too high for true market value. Rather than lower the reserve (or get rid of it altogether) they would just relist and relist.

So now these $1,500 or $2,500 or $5,000 Davis jerseys are currently selling in the $600-$800 range after having more money put into them to have signed and inscribed. While I have not been to the store recently (now under Orioles management) it sounds as if not much has changed.

All this is why this "business" of flipping jerseys (at least in the case of the Orioles') is confusing to me. The team asks top dollar and usually more than true market value. My observations after watching these closely for the past several years are that for some reason (maybe because it comes directly from team and not a middle man) MLB Auctions command a much higher premium than they can ever come close to on eBay. Yet I see sellers continue to attempt this and just sit on items for years. Do as you wish but I fail to see the business savvy in this tactic.

As was mentioned, eBay is looking more and more like a museum of show and tell "look what I got" than an actual marketplace for these types of items.

i think a fair way to summarize whether buying items off MLB auctions to resell is a good idea is as follows:

if you can go onto MLB auctions and see an item, or a similar item (for example, an chris davis home HR jersey or an ALT HR jersey) consistently being available, then chances are, it isnt a good item to purchase an resell because there is ALWAYS one available, and possibly for a cheaper price. but, if they are rarer items (batting helmets because so few are used during the year), or items from a team that doesnt pull tons of jerseys (jose abreu jersey on the white sox comes to mind), then there is more of a chance to make a profit on that item because the buyer has no where else to go to get one. in the end, most stuff will still eventually sell - very coincidentally i was able to sell my adam jones HR jersey on ebay just last night for a profit, purchased off MLB auctions.

teams like the orioles, yankees (steiner), braves, mets pull SO MANY JERSEYS that it floods the market - probably not the best items to buy and try and resell. but jerseys from teams like the dodgers, angels, white sox, nationals, that havent flooded the market with their items - there is a better chance for there to be room on a resale. that said, there is also the chance that that item sells for more than market value on MLB auctions because there are not many of them and all bidders try and land it at once. it is always a risk, but a calculated one if you are familiar with the market.

[yanks12025]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

My stance is not to feed the flipper unless he's taking a loss.

They may call it whatever they want but at the end of the day they are looking for that sucker "to help"

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

[Samets]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

My stance is not to feed the flipper unless he's taking a loss.

They may call it whatever they want but at the end of the day they are looking for that sucker "to help"

[sprint23]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I'm not sure I ever saw one in the store for less than $1,000 and that was in 2014 when he was not having a stellar year. That is unsigned. The ones that ACTUALLY sell seem to be going for far less than that on eBay even with signatures and inscriptions added.

[grandeleague]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

When the program started with the Orioles the team was only going to pull jerseys requested and paid for by customers during specific games. Jones first jersey (which I believe I owned at one time) was $1,000. Then Davis got on his streak and the Manny hype began. Their jerseys went to $1,500... then $2,000 and beyond. At one point they sold a Davis jersey for $5,000.

They (the team) also began pulling jerseys, bases, etc for any and all accomplishments (ie. A 3-hit game, a HR, etc.). They also found the avenue of MLB Auctions to use to sell these items. Soon the store in the stadium was being given less and less access to stuff so it could go to the auction site. At first this was successful for the team but as supply increased and demand increased soon Davis and Jones jerseys would sit on the site for months and months at a time without sale because the team imposed reserve was too high for true market value. Rather than lower the reserve (or get rid of it altogether) they would just relist and relist.

So now these $1,500 or $2,500 or $5,000 Davis jerseys are currently selling in the $600-$800 range after having more money put into them to have signed and inscribed. While I have not been to the store recently (now under Orioles management) it sounds as if not much has changed.

All this is why this "business" of flipping jerseys (at least in the case of the Orioles') is confusing to me. The team asks top dollar and usually more than true market value. My observations after watching these closely for the past several years are that for some reason (maybe because it comes directly from team and not a middle man) MLB Auctions command a much higher premium than they can ever come close to on eBay. Yet I see sellers continue to attempt this and just sit on items for years. Do as you wish but I fail to see the business savvy in this tactic.

As was mentioned, eBay is looking more and more like a museum of show and tell "look what I got" than an actual marketplace for these types of items.

So is it fair to say the davis jerseys on ebay are less than the orioles sold them for but more than what a fair price for one is? Your report on the orioles sounds very similar to my favorite team.

[sprint23]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

When the program started with the Orioles the team was only going to pull jerseys requested and paid for by customers during specific games. Jones first jersey (which I believe I owned at one time) was $1,000. Then Davis got on his streak and the Manny hype began. Their jerseys went to $1,500... then $2,000 and beyond. At one point they sold a Davis jersey for $5,000.

They (the team) also began pulling jerseys, bases, etc for any and all accomplishments (ie. A 3-hit game, a HR, etc.). They also found the avenue of MLB Auctions to use to sell these items. Soon the store in the stadium was being given less and less access to stuff so it could go to the auction site. At first this was successful for the team but as supply increased and demand increased soon Davis and Jones jerseys would sit on the site for months and months at a time without sale because the team imposed reserve was too high for true market value. Rather than lower the reserve (or get rid of it altogether) they would just relist and relist.

So now these $1,500 or $2,500 or $5,000 Davis jerseys are currently selling in the $600-$800 range after having more money put into them to have signed and inscribed. While I have not been to the store recently (now under Orioles management) it sounds as if not much has changed.

All this is why this "business" of flipping jerseys (at least in the case of the Orioles') is confusing to me. The team asks top dollar and usually more than true market value. My observations after watching these closely for the past several years are that for some reason (maybe because it comes directly from team and not a middle man) MLB Auctions command a much higher premium than they can ever come close to on eBay. Yet I see sellers continue to attempt this and just sit on items for years. Do as you wish but I fail to see the business savvy in this tactic.

As was mentioned, eBay is looking more and more like a museum of show and tell "look what I got" than an actual marketplace for these types of items.

[grandeleague]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I know two examples I've seen recently are the Manny Machado and Carlos Correa game used St Patrick's day jerseys. Somehow the seller got complete pics of the Manny jersey less than 24 hours after it sold, I'm not even sure how that's possible. It is definitely annoying though I agree. The Correa one is listed for $8K and it sold for way less than half that.

Have the orioles mass produced and flooded the market with adam jones and chris davis jerseys? What did they charge for them when the team originally sold them?

[Juicyfruit66]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Haha museums! So true

[grandeleague]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

As a collector who has primarily focused on the Baltimore Orioles for the past 20 plus years, I have intimate 1st hand knowledge of how the Orioles now sell and market their game used compared to as recently as 5 years ago when everything either funneled through Fan Fest unauthenticated or went out the back door. I can honestly say I too am just dumbfounded by some of the insanity that now takes place with attempting to flip items. I get it, supply demand, free market etc. if you can make some money then more power to you. What amazes me is that there is for instance a seller on ebay now from the Baltimore area that regularly acquires a very very heavy supply of Manny Machado game used bats, jersey's, game used balls, batting helmets, etc. I personally have had in the past 2 or 3 years several Machado game used bats and bases, balls etc. that were MLB authenticated, signed, photomatched, etc. that I was selling for literally 1/3rd or less of the price that this seller is charging and I could not move a single one of these items, in 2 or 3 years, just sitting relisting on ebay over and over again. As Sprint mentions above, unless someone has Bill Gates money, how in the world is this sound business practice. The prices that this seller is paying to acquire these items and what he is looking to flip them for is in some cases a 1000% markup or more which is simply beyond insane. Many of the items carry zero authentication he is selling and quite honestly Manny could win the next 5 consecutive AL MVP awards and he would still never see the prices he is asking. I don't know if he has ever sold more than one of these items. We are talking about game used Machado hits that are being purchased for $150.00 and being sold for $5000 or more.

This strategy just makes zero sense on any level. As someone who has worked in various levels of retail for over 25 years, you strive at all cost to move product. If it is dying on your shelves your not making money period.
These folks can mark this stuff up 10,000% if they so choose. They won't ever sell it and it makes zero sense on any level to me but you see this strategy play out time and time again. I am just stunned too that people say they never take a loss utilizing the flip strategy from MLB or NFL auctions direct to ebay. I can honestly say in the past 2 to 4 years I have seen a complete about face probably due to this market saturation as I rarely if ever come close to getting my money back out of anything I sell on ebay. 9 out of 10 times in the past 2 or 3 years I am often taking what amounts to a 20 to 30 or even 40% loss on every single game used item I sell. How others are bucking this trend is beyond me, I would really love to know.

I just don't get how people are spending $1000's on these items and letting them sit on ebay marked up 5 or 10x's and they just sit year after year after year. Especially given the fact that there is so much market volatility that more often than not your items over the long haul on the newer game used from the past 2 - 4 years stand a reasonable chance over the long haul to drastically reduce in value given the sheer over-saturation of the market on all this stuff.

If anyone wants to kindly volunteer some strategies on selling game used on ebay today where you can simply break even on the sale I am all ears. I can get this stuff signed and inscribed with unique HR inscriptions, photomatched to the HR, MLB Auth, JSA Auth, does not matter, it's nearly impossible to come close to breaking even which is why I am pretty much out of the game used business anymore.

It appears most jersey flipping is done with a current modern player. Its all about hype. Dude just scored 50 pts in a game. Old boy is hitting .450 to start the year. Once the player is retired or out of the limelight scalping becomes next to impossible because the scalping has moved on to new players. Its all about hype. The only things that change are the players and parties involved. Notice the like of true ebay auctions anymore. Most ebay sellers are running museums at most of the listed prices.

[grandeleague]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

When we started the game worn program at Camden Yards the plan was to only pull jerseys specifically ordered by a customer in advance or day of game or if something spectacular occurred in the game and limit to around 5 to 7 per player max per year.

Unfortunately we created Frankenstein as the Director of the program completely lost his mind and would not listen to anything Andrew or I suggested once he felt their was money to be made, then why not flood the market year over year.

What you now have is the above mentioned issue. The everyday blue collar fan is priced completely out of this market and this continuous over-saturation will systematically devalue these items over time.

Exactly. Greed has run its course and supply outsrips demand by a long shot. People buy these jerseys and they are worth half or less of what it costs to get them. Who cares most will say. The poor sap who cant get 600 for a jersey he paid a grand for will probably care. If you look at the braves jersey list you will find instances of them pulling three jerseys during the course of a 3 game homestand. Some braves jerseys of recent vintage have set numbers over 15. That is sheer madness if these things are ever supposed to be collectible. When the teams started controlling jerseys instead of selling to someone in bulk who in turn sold to the hobby is when the madness started.