Increase in people flipping jerseys?

[grandeleague]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Many seem to think they're "dealers" nowadays...you could probably start a thread called "Does anybody collect anymore?"

Most of the stuff being flipped is "manufactured memorabilia" meaning it was worn or used with the intention winding up on the collecting market. Will be very interesting to see what this stuff is worth a decade or two from now. My team is the braves and braves jerseys used to be scarce. Vintage jerseys and jerseys from the 1990's are relatively scarce now. However they are simply burning through too many sets of jerseys now for these things to be all that collectible in the furture. I dont really care anyway but the real pain is getting them from the team into collectors hands. The team wants 1k for freddie freeman jerseys. So somebody has to pay up to get one but once a freeman jersey enters the hobby good luck getting 750 for one. Fat chance at 1k unless its something really cool or unique. These memorabilia jerseys are not really rare and the teams could care less about supply. They crank them out by the bushel every season. Common braves players going through 30 jerseys a year is nuts. Its probably the same hassle with many other teams nowadays.

[Stanley]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

"the bottom line is, these items are worth what someone is willing to pay for them at any given time. every day is different, different people see items at different times, and teams and players peak at different times. the market is very fluid and its always a gamble.

but have to love this industry "

This post really gets me.
Why does there have to be these middle men? The guy that justs bids on everything to sell it for double money? Oh,,,, I won it to offer it to guys that didnt see the auction...He's not a collector. He doesn't care about history of the item what so ever. He doesn't even care about the game. He just cares about the dollar.

[lakeerie92]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Teams cranking out jerseys at such a high level is a good thing right now. If you look at game used memorabilia despite what some people want to claim, it is on the rise. Ten years ago, how many teams had game used memorabilia programs? Now all 30 MLB teams have some level of program. It is growing in the other major sports too. The reason there is benefit to teams cranking out so many jerseys of common players right now is because it allows more people to come into the hobby. I would not be here collecting if it wasn't for a Mike Gonzalez Braves Jackie Robinson Day jersey that I ended up losing money on. I don't care that I lost money. I was hooked at that point and as time progresses I focus my efforts. You may be able to buy a lot of jerseys from a player now, but I just focus my efforts on milestone jerseys or items of that nature.
To me when it is an item that I want for my collection there is no such thing as overpaying. Sometimes it is worth paying more than you can get for an item to have it in your collection and to me that is all that matters.

I guess this is all to say that a majority of us started by collecting virtually worthless items at some point and it got us into the hobby. We all have our collection focuses and I have a rule with some items that the time to buy it is when you see it for sale. I have missed out on items that I thought were overpriced that now looking back I wish I had forked out the money. Value is in the eyes of the beholder. If you read this far I give you two gold stars!

[grandeleague]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Teams cranking out jerseys at such a high level is a good thing right now. If you look at game used memorabilia despite what some people want to claim, it is on the rise. Ten years ago, how many teams had game used memorabilia programs? Now all 30 MLB teams have some level of program. It is growing in the other major sports too. The reason there is benefit to teams cranking out so many jerseys of common players right now is because it allows more people to come into the hobby. I would not be here collecting if it wasn't for a Mike Gonzalez Braves Jackie Robinson Day jersey that I ended up losing money on. I don't care that I lost money. I was hooked at that point and as time progresses I focus my efforts. You may be able to buy a lot of jerseys from a player now, but I just focus my efforts on milestone jerseys or items of that nature.
To me when it is an item that I want for my collection there is no such thing as overpaying. Sometimes it is worth paying more than you can get for an item to have it in your collection and to me that is all that matters.

I guess this is all to say that a majority of us started by collecting virtually worthless items at some point and it got us into the hobby. We all have our collection focuses and I have a rule with some items that the time to buy it is when you see it for sale. I have missed out on items that I thought were overpriced that now looking back I wish I had forked out the money. Value is in the eyes of the beholder. If you read this far I give you two gold stars!

Some teams had memorabilia programs in the early 1990's. The braves would sell every regular season jersey and bp jersey in one lot to someone who offered the most and that person in turn would sell them in a full page ad in Sports Collectos digest. You got all the jerseys and one copy of a letter from the braves to go with the jerseys. Dave Miedema would remember those braves bulk sales in sports collectors digest. You had to sell the stars for alot because you had to buy the common players to get them even the bat boy jerseys. Even then, there were only three or four sets so there was a good balance between supply and demand. Not anymore.30 or 40 jerseys for one player in a single season is nuts. Greed has taken over now at least with braves items. The real collectible braves jerseys in this hobby were the ones never meant to be collectible in the first place. The same can be said for alot of different teams. People can do as they wish. This is after all a hobby. If they think their mass produced derrick rose or freddie freeman jerseys are going to be rare and sought after 20 years from now they may quite mistaken.

[TwinLakesPark]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I remember a story like this that began in 2004 and ended in 2008...

I have been preaching for some time now that this market is not sustainable and the bubble will pop, the only questions are when this will happen and how much inflated game used memorabilia will you be holding?

I am a collector at heart but my investment logic tells me that this is going to get worse. You pointed it out yourself Jake, how many people are flipping now? Same story in 2006, how many real estate agents were getting into the biz?

There are some people that are going to get very wealthy, if not already, on this bubble - just be careful you are not left holding the bag when the cards finally come down!

[memorabiliaunlimited]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

"the bottom line is, these items are worth what someone is willing to pay for them at any given time. every day is different, different people see items at different times, and teams and players peak at different times. the market is very fluid and its always a gamble.

but have to love this industry "

This post really gets me.
Why does there have to be these middle men? The guy that justs bids on everything to sell it for double money? Oh,,,, I won it to offer it to guys that didnt see the auction...He's not a collector. He doesn't care about history of the item what so ever. He doesn't even care about the game. He just cares about the dollar.

you could not be more incorrect. i think its funny that people get so offended by the fact that someone resells an item - you do what you do, and ill do what i do. you have no idea what i have that is not for sale, why i buy and sell, or how i feel about the game. so many times i sell something to someone who just has not been able to find it no matter how hard they looked, and they are incredibly happy to purchase it. im an attorney, this is a side hobby. i started collecting autographs when i was 12, and now i am 28 and it has evolved into a way to make some extra side cash and continue to grow my collection. you cant knock success - this will be my 5th year having a formal business, and it has grown exponentially and been very successful. my inventory started with 60 autographed baseballs (the most valuable only being mantle). it is now what you see today, and i havent added one cent to my business - everything is purchased from profits. if something can be replaced, ill sell it and buy another one. with the amount of items pulled from each player, 90% of the new stuff that comes onto the market is replaceable with something comparable.

would love to answer anyones questions about this stuff - the incredible divide between collector and dealer is fascinating to me, especially when i think i fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.

[paul457]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

As I stated in another thread about people complaining about flippers is that NOT every collector sees EVERY auction. So just because an item in one auction sells for XXX amount, that DOESN'T mean that its worth only that price.

So pretty much, if a Ruth game used bat is listed for sale and for some odd reason it sells for only $1,000. Is it only worth $1,000 because thats what it sold for at auction.

That's the exception, not the rule. Most people have access to the Internet...

I have no problem with people flipping, if you can make a profit off of it then go for it. Most of the examples I have seen personally are laughable.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Some teams had memorabilia programs in the early 1990's. The braves would sell every regular season jersey and bp jersey in one lot to someone who offered the most and that person in turn would sell them in a full page ad in Sports Collectos digest. You got all the jerseys and one copy of a letter from the braves to go with the jerseys. Dave Miedema would remember those braves bulk sales in sports collectors digest. You had to sell the stars for alot because you had to buy the common players to get them even the bat boy jerseys. Even then, there were only three or four sets so there was a good balance between supply and demand. Not anymore.30 or 40 jerseys for one player in a single season is nuts. Greed has taken over now at least with braves items. The real collectible braves jerseys in this hobby were the ones never meant to be collectible in the first place. The same can be said for alot of different teams. People can do as they wish. This is after all a hobby. If they think their mass produced derrick rose or freddie freeman jerseys are going to be rare and sought after 20 years from now they may quite mistaken.

You're right...I do remeber the Braves sales. Equipment Manager Bill Acrie used to usually sell them to two area hobbyists, Doak Ewing (now of Rare Sportsfilms fame) and Phil Schafer. They, in turn would offer them to collectors. This, of course, was back in the day when teams routinely sold unneeded GU equipment to various dealers in the hobby. There's very little of that now what with the teams, and even some players, seeing the value and demand of GU items. The current middlemen appear to be downsized versions of what places like Ball Park Heroes, Ball Four Sports, Sports Warehouse, and others were in the 1990s.

Dave Miedema

[sprint23]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

I agree people can do what they want. I just fail to see the business savvy or acumen involved in purchasing items on MLB Auctions and trying to resell immediately. I routinely see items sell on MLB auctions for far more than anyone can ever get on eBay. The entire thought process seems backward. When these items are listed for a year + I don't see how this practice can be seen as successful. At some point you need to realize the price is too high and perhaps your business plan is flawed. Yet these same sellers do this repeatedly and just relist over and over again.

I for one don't have the disposable income to just buy this stuff and let it sit for years and years at an outrageous price that no one will pay. Again people are free to do what they want, I just don't see the upside to this practice in the current market environment.

[Juicyfruit66]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I'm pretty new to the hobby and have focused on my old home team the Montreal Expos. Luckily , the franchise died before collecting became such a cash cow for the MLB so all the stuff I buy is actually relatively rare compared to the hundreds of items churned out now by the MLB authenticators. I think some people buying all the hologrammed stuff the MLB rolls out en mass may end up feeling like card collectors felt in the 90s. It just looks like they are "creating" memorabilia instead of things actually being memorabilia. Like the other day I bought a Bryn Smith rookie jersey and you can tell its seen many a game, has a few stories to tell. Can the same be said about the jersey a 2016 star player wire once to steal one base? Food for thought. In the end I collect for the love of my old team and not for profit.

[Juicyfruit66]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I also don't see a problem with a collector going through auctions and seeing a steal of a deal for a team or player he doesn't collect, buying it to flip to buy stuff he DOES collect. I think he'd be a smart guy, smart business .

[joshmiller0]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

It is frustrating when you want an item, someone out bids you, and then it's an insane amount of ebay. However, if they're willing to take the risk, it is what it is...I mean someone could end up sitting on a jersey for a long time or taking a significant loss if the player isn't popular anymore or gets traded. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay...I know I've overpaid for a ton of my items like buying the 1st year in brooklyn...but I am keeping it in my collection. What frustrates me more is when people try to pass an item off as game used or issued when it isn't or when someone lists an auction and starts a new ebay account to jack up the price. I see this from sellers when an item sits..then they list it for auction...someone with 0 feedback wins and shortly after it is relisted at the old buy it now price.

[CPuente57]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Me personally, I never buy with the intention to flip, when I list items, it's basically stuff that if the price was right I'd sell, but if I can't get the price I want, I have no problem keeping it in my collection. I never expect the list price (that's why there is a best offer option) but it's just there at a starting point. I usually just look to break even if I can (which I know in the game used market is easier said than done).

[Juicyfruit66]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

Flipping to profit can get risky, I'd only do it for something I knew was totally underpriced. My favorite thing to do is sell stuff I don't really need in my collection but bought a few years ago and sell it for around same price to make money for new stuff. My collection kind of regenerates itself, as it grows and evolves I realize what's good and what's not. My game used bat collection was basically paid for by my old Russell and Rawlings jersey collection.

[mr.miracle]

Re: Increase in people flipping jerseys?

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

I agree people can do what they want. I just fail to see the business savvy or acumen involved in purchasing items on MLB Auctions and trying to resell immediately. I routinely see items sell on MLB auctions for far more than anyone can ever get on eBay. The entire thought process seems backward. When these items are listed for a year + I don't see how this practice can be seen as successful. At some point you need to realize the price is too high and perhaps your business plan is flawed. Yet these same sellers do this repeatedly and just relist over and over again.

I for one don't have the disposable income to just buy this stuff and let it sit for years and years at an outrageous price that no one will pay. Again people are free to do what they want, I just don't see the upside to this practice in the current market environment.

As a collector who has primarily focused on the Baltimore Orioles for the past 20 plus years, I have intimate 1st hand knowledge of how the Orioles now sell and market their game used compared to as recently as 5 years ago when everything either funneled through Fan Fest unauthenticated or went out the back door. I can honestly say I too am just dumbfounded by some of the insanity that now takes place with attempting to flip items. I get it, supply demand, free market etc. if you can make some money then more power to you. What amazes me is that there is for instance a seller on ebay now from the Baltimore area that regularly acquires a very very heavy supply of Manny Machado game used bats, jersey's, game used balls, batting helmets, etc. I personally have had in the past 2 or 3 years several Machado game used bats and bases, balls etc. that were MLB authenticated, signed, photomatched, etc. that I was selling for literally 1/3rd or less of the price that this seller is charging and I could not move a single one of these items, in 2 or 3 years, just sitting relisting on ebay over and over again. As Sprint mentions above, unless someone has Bill Gates money, how in the world is this sound business practice. The prices that this seller is paying to acquire these items and what he is looking to flip them for is in some cases a 1000% markup or more which is simply beyond insane. Many of the items carry zero authentication he is selling and quite honestly Manny could win the next 5 consecutive AL MVP awards and he would still never see the prices he is asking. I don't know if he has ever sold more than one of these items. We are talking about game used Machado hits that are being purchased for $150.00 and being sold for $5000 or more.

This strategy just makes zero sense on any level. As someone who has worked in various levels of retail for over 25 years, you strive at all cost to move product. If it is dying on your shelves your not making money period.
These folks can mark this stuff up 10,000% if they so choose. They won't ever sell it and it makes zero sense on any level to me but you see this strategy play out time and time again. I am just stunned too that people say they never take a loss utilizing the flip strategy from MLB or NFL auctions direct to ebay. I can honestly say in the past 2 to 4 years I have seen a complete about face probably due to this market saturation as I rarely if ever come close to getting my money back out of anything I sell on ebay. 9 out of 10 times in the past 2 or 3 years I am often taking what amounts to a 20 to 30 or even 40% loss on every single game used item I sell. How others are bucking this trend is beyond me, I would really love to know.

I just don't get how people are spending $1000's on these items and letting them sit on ebay marked up 5 or 10x's and they just sit year after year after year. Especially given the fact that there is so much market volatility that more often than not your items over the long haul on the newer game used from the past 2 - 4 years stand a reasonable chance over the long haul to drastically reduce in value given the sheer over-saturation of the market on all this stuff.

If anyone wants to kindly volunteer some strategies on selling game used on ebay today where you can simply break even on the sale I am all ears. I can get this stuff signed and inscribed with unique HR inscriptions, photomatched to the HR, MLB Auth, JSA Auth, does not matter, it's nearly impossible to come close to breaking even which is why I am pretty much out of the game used business anymore.