Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

[CollectGU]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Hello Dave,

As the note on the bottom of this page states, the forum was originally created as a way to bring game used collectors together and help hobbyists educate each other. Despite the fact that GUU will be hosting auctions, the purpose of the forum will not change. I would encourage other auction houses to participate in the forum as I agree with other forum members that it would only benefit the hobby.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

Chris,

With all due respect, you didn't pay a large amount of money (i've heard $250,000 but only you and Eric know) and Eric didn't accept that large amount of money to simply bring game used collectors together and help hobbysists, correct? It seems to me that it was was a business decision by you to buy the forum and use this platform to create an auction house. As the note says, that's what it was ORIGINALLY created for, but what it is transforming into is a forum PLUS a for profit auction house that can utilize the forum and it's members to drive bids to the auction house. So, now it serves 2 purposes to bring the community togther and make you money and to say any different in my opinion would sound disengenuous. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this post...

Regards,
Dave

[RobSteinmetz]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

I am associated with AMI as a consignor only.

Dave,

In the last issue of American Memorabilia Magazine (their new auction catalog format), someone named David O'Brien was listed as a "Contributing Editor". Is this you?

[Eric]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Chris,

With all due respect, you didn't pay a large amount of money (i've heard $250,000 but only you and Eric know) and Eric didn't accept that large amount of money to simply bring game used collectors together and help hobbysists, correct?...

Regards,
Dave

Dave-
As with everything else on this site, we need to deal in fact, and not rumor.

Yes, Chris and I are the only ones who know, but your allegation is ridiculously far off. You really do need to know facts before offering an opinion based on a false rumor.
Eric

[CollectGU]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Dave,

In the last issue of American Memorabilia Magazine (their new auction catalog format), someone named David O'Brien was listed as a "Contributing Editor". Is this you?

Rob,

Yes, I helped out on some of the write ups. I was not paid, I did it as a favor..

[RobSteinmetz]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Dave,

I don't know many consignors who are involved in the writing process...you must be held in high regard at AMI. Most of the names in AMI's "contributing editors" list are people who are well known in the hobby for their knowledge in a specific niche. What is your area of expertise?

[Eric]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

I heard you got paid $250,000 (but only you and Victor know)
Eric

[CollectGU]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Dave,

I don't know many consignors who are involved in the writing process...you must be held in high regard at AMI. Most of the names in AMI's "contributing editors" list are people who are well known in the hobby for their knowledge in a specific niche. What is your area of expertise?

Rob, I was simply helping to edit...

[CollectGU]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

I heard you got paid $250,000 (but only you and Victor know)
Eric

Eric,

Sorry. I should have asked you how much before throwing out a number based on rumor

[reed1216]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

With all due respect to the parties involved here, this correspondence is part of the problem that goes on in this hobby.

Originally Posted by yankees159
Hi Dave:

If I may ask a few questions:

1. Are you associated with AMI, for the tone of your post seems to sound like you have intimate knowlege of their business practice?

2.Regarding your question of lack of responses from other Auction houses, why would they respond to ligitimate questions that may result in forcing them to pull an item that is fake? Like I've mentioned in previous posts if you have nothing to hide, this website can be a great benifit to your auction business. When GUF starts auctions, I will feel extremly comfortible bidding on items. However, I would be hesitate to try to sumbit a fradulent items with experts such as Rudy and Eric on the lookout.

So Dave, if your not with AMI and you have legitimate items that you would like to sell, why wouldn't you utilize GUF? You obviously think enough about this website to frequently post your opinions.

This is an awesome vehicle for the collecting community and has the potential to clean up the industry and protect our investments in game used items. If you have integrity, this website is good for your business.

I am associated with AMI as a consignor only. I am not following your second question..And as for consigning to GUU, I may in fact do that once I see that they can bring me better numbers on my items than AMI. When and if that day comes, I will have to make a business decision.

Doesn't offering editorial assistance to an auction house constitute having an association beyond just consigning items to them??

As far as the site itself is concerned, there are potential conflicts of interests that could arise. However, it remains to be seen if those will surface. Presently, it really is irrelevant whether or not the owner of the site has motives beyond bringing people together. As long as the other policies remain in tact, such as sticking to facts and free and open disclosures and discussions about the items that are auctioned off by way of this site continue, there really shouldn't be any conflicts of interests.

As far as I am concerned, auction houses that opt not to appear here are using the potential for issues that have yet to surface as a convenient way to take the high road, or even attempt to discredit this site and its members. If a seller, any seller, was truley interested in selling authentic items, they would have no problem responding to questions and making appropriate adjustments to their listings and/or pulling them from sale, when neccessary. These issues have not been a problem during the first auction that was held here and it should not be presumed that they will become one.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Chris,

With all due respect, you didn't pay a large amount of money (i've heard $250,000 but only you and Eric know) and Eric didn't accept that large amount of money to simply bring game used collectors together and help hobbysists, correct? It seems to me that it was was a business decision by you to buy the forum and use this platform to create an auction house. As the note says, that's what it was ORIGINALLY created for, but what it is transforming into is a forum PLUS a for profit auction house that can utilize the forum and it's members to drive bids to the auction house. So, now it serves 2 purposes to bring the community togther and make you money and to say any different in my opinion would sound disengenuous. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this post...

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

In Sam Walton's biography, I read where he did not set out to create the largest retailer in the world. He actually created WalMart as a way to improve the quality of life for small town Americans by bringing them products and services at prices they could afford. By staying focused on meeting the needs of consumers and improving their lives, WalMart became the largest retailer in the world.

While GUU is a business, it is one that was create with a single-minded focus of benefiting the collecting community. That has been our unequivocal vision from the beginning and it always will be. If we become big in the hobby it will be because we are meeting the needs of the collecting community.

It's kind of funny. From GUU/GUF's beginnings there have been a number of entities that have laughed at our efforts and accused GUU/GUF of being a site with a bunch of "bottom feeders" whose only motive is to try to discredit others. Now that we have grown in stature and credibility, I find it interesting that some of those same entities are feeling threatened by what we are doing. I guess we should take that as a good sign.

I will say this, GUU has gotten to where it is today by meeting the needs of the collecting community. We have invested a lot of time and money to build a company on uncompromised principles that I believe collectors can now trust. I also believe the way we approach our business is what helps us stand out in this industry. We will stay committed to our vision, one that is focused on meeting the needs of collectors and one that is committed to integrity before profits. If that makes us a profitable company then great. However, if we do not become profitable we will not change our commitment to doing what is right for the collecting community.

I hope that answers your question in a way that you feel is ingenuous.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe

[allstarsplus]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Andrew,

1. Victor has never responded himself to a post.

2. The forum portion of GUU is not exclusive. Simply, look at how many forum posts recently have ended with forummercials for GUU auctions. I can think of at leats 5 off the top of my head wiithin the last week. This forum has been used at times to puch the auction house it now uses. There is nothing wrong with that, as this is a business, but don't pretend that they are exclusive of one another.

3. Also, Huggins and Scott who you endorse made a big error on the Leiter jersey they sold as game used and then it ended up on ebay as game used and was sold as such to someone. Why is this misstep any better than Lou's? Because they didn't know and made a mistake? Ignorance is no excuse, and now a bad Leiter is out in the hobby. Should we boycott them? The answer of course is no.

regards,
Dave

Dave - I numbered your paragraphs to respond.

#1. Why should Victor respond when you seem to always give a very nice supportive positive AMI comment whenever anything on AMI is questioned.

#2. You say the Forum portion is not exclusive of their auction, and Chris Cavalier would be the only one who can probably answer that, but my point was towards membership more so that you can still participate in the Forum without any requirement towards the auction.

#3. If you found 1 error on Huggins & Scott, I think you personally said on the Elway jersey Post: To be fair to the auction houses, we are looking at and complaining about 5- 10 jerseys, often the other 300 don't seem to have problems, and in fact there are some really nice items often offered. No excuse for the 5 -10 wrong, but if auction houses like AMI at least pull them when notified with a problem it means that things are changing for the better in the hobby.

Let's be fair, Josh from Huggins & Scott posted to you already:
Dave,

this was never brought to my attention and I knew nothing of it. I wish I had known, so I could have done a little research on the piece.

The item originally passed during the auction, but I was contacted by someone after the auction ended to see if they could purchase the jersey for the opening bid, plus the buyers' premium. I checked with the consignor and he was ok to sell it, so we did.

Because the item was not of high-value and the authentication would have cost the same as the sale price, the consignor opted not to have it authenticated by MEARS. We sold the jersey without the authentication.

In looking back, I'm not sure how our writer narrowed it to the 2002 season, since there was no year tag.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention - I may use this forum for future authentication of our jersey's.
thanks,
Josh Wulkan
VP Huggins and Scott Auctions

[lund6771]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

great post Chris...shows a lot of class!!!

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

The forum is simply an area where collectors go to discuss the hobby. For a auction house to post on their website the warning they did is just out of line. Whether the posts on the forum are good, bad or ugly posts, they are simply that – a discussion. The information is posted and it is up to the reader to make a final determination on the authenticity of an item.

As for Historic auctions, their policy is “All sales are final. No returns will be accepted after the auction is over”. I still can’t figure out what “No returns will be accepted after the auction is over” means, but, when an auction house has an “All sales are final” policy, doesn’t it make sense to gather as much information on an item BEFORE we bid? Or, is Historic Auction so pompous that they want us to blindly put down our money, pay a buyers fee and quietly walk away?

As for Lou Lampson, I am the exception - I like Lou and respect his opinions. Even Lou will tell you, and like the rest of us, NO-ONE IS PERFECT. We all make mistakes. In fact, even MEARS and PSA will attest that they too have made mistakes. They will also state that their letters are simply “Opinions”. So, why wouldn’t it be prudent to research an item before we bid? The forum is just another reference source.

Historic Auctions is way out of line in posting the disclaimer against the forum. They should NOT underestimate the average collector. The days of blindly throwing our money down to auctions houses because they print up nice catalogs, and provide letters of opinions from authenticators are over. Eric, thanks for hosting the site and to all of the forum members - keep up the good work.

The forum IS MAKING AN IMPACT ON THE HOBBY.

Jim Papaycik

[rose14]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Jim, I know even the best people make mistakes but what makes Lou Lampson different is that the quantity of those mistakes is mind blowing. Lou's blatant regard to back up his findings or opinions is his own doing. Lou was well aware of a particular item in a recent Mastro auction where I obtained information from the actual player whose jersey they were auctioning. Even after I presented the facts from the player to the auction house who later told Lou he still said that he was right because of the manuafacturing tags on the jersey even though the coloring of the lettering and the material the jersey was made of was wrong. Lou had NO photo proof to form an opinion on this jersey but he did anyway.

I also hold fault to the auction houses that continue to use him as they are only hurting their integrity and future business. Now you not only having to deal with suspect authenticators but the less than honest heads of the auction houses that try to alter knowingly bad items and auction them.

[CollectGU]

Re: Historic Auctions Won't Allow A Link From GUF

Dave - I numbered your paragraphs to respond.

#1. Why should Victor respond when you seem to always give a very nice supportive positive AMI comment whenever anything on AMI is questioned.

#2. You say the Forum portion is not exclusive of their auction, and Chris Cavalier would be the only one who can probably answer that, but my point was towards membership more so that you can still participate in the Forum without any requirement towards the auction.

#3. If you found 1 error on Huggins & Scott, I think you personally said on the Elway jersey Post: To be fair to the auction houses, we are looking at and complaining about 5- 10 jerseys, often the other 300 don't seem to have problems, and in fact there are some really nice items often offered. No excuse for the 5 -10 wrong, but if auction houses like AMI at least pull them when notified with a problem it means that things are changing for the better in the hobby.

Let's be fair, Josh from Huggins & Scott posted to you already:
Dave,

this was never brought to my attention and I knew nothing of it. I wish I had known, so I could have done a little research on the piece.

The item originally passed during the auction, but I was contacted by someone after the auction ended to see if they could purchase the jersey for the opening bid, plus the buyers' premium. I checked with the consignor and he was ok to sell it, so we did.

Because the item was not of high-value and the authentication would have cost the same as the sale price, the consignor opted not to have it authenticated by MEARS. We sold the jersey without the authentication.

In looking back, I'm not sure how our writer narrowed it to the 2002 season, since there was no year tag.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention - I may use this forum for future authentication of our jersey's.
thanks,
Josh Wulkan
VP Huggins and Scott Auctions

Andrew,

I have worked on behalf of this forum to get items pulled from AMI's auction that are shown not to be good, and will continue to try and do so. My original post was a response to you to help you and others better understand their authentication process, so they were not incorrectly painted with the " if they use lampson it can't be good so boycott them" brush. We have now veered way off topic, and don't feel like getting into a pissing match..

Regards,
Dave