Sell your Clemens stuff..

[TFig27]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

Uuuum excuse me KingJammy, I am not sure if you purposely took my words out of context to make humor of it or to try to make a serious point.

But I will say this to the first comment qouted. I am not denying anything I am just mearly making a point. I know as well as everyone else does they took the stuff when it was shipped to there house and didnt accidently open up a package and by accident stuck themself with a needle, but we do live in America and last time I checked unless direct proof is given nothing else much can be done other then writing up a report.

To your second comment I am not saying we shouldnt have laws but I don't know if your aware of this but the Mitchell erport is not a law its just that, a report. A report of names of who we believe was invlolved, so can anyone be punished in a manner where it will make people think, change there ways, or out right be honest and say "hey from no on and forever we will place the game honestly" NO

Buy, it will change the player's opinion in the eye's of the fans and hall of fame voters. Also, even though this is only a report, it will have the affect of rewriting history and changing a players legacy.

[suave1477]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

You think so huh????

If you want there is someone selling some great beachfront property here in a dessert real cheap. After that ill sell you some underwater property where it never rains

lmaooooo

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

If you want there is someone selling some great beachfront property here in a dessert real cheap.

[suave1477]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

both teams play hard lmaoooooo thanks

[David]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

A practical problem is owners still pay big contracts to players who use/used banned drugs, so the owners themselves create no disincentive to use drugs. In fact some might say these owners create the incentive.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

david,

players caught failing tests are suspended. i believe an owner and the rest of the team would care if a star player had to miss 2 weeks during a pennant race. secondly, if fans react negatively to players caught cheating then perhaps they're looking at a drop in revenue from things like merchandise and ticket sales. then again, giants fans still seem to like bonds to this day so who knows.

anyway, my 2 cents on some of the comments:

1) "the players on the list aren't exactly a surprise"

sure bonds and canseco are obvious given that they both admitted to taking steroids prior to the release of the mitchell report. however, garciaparra isn't a surprise? wally joyner? andy pettitte? mo vaughn? if those guys aren't a surprise, then how is it that their names weren't bandied about before? hindsight's always 20/20 right? i guess this is the point where the experts suddenly come out of the woodwork and say that they knew the whole time.

secondly, there's a difference between having a suspicion and having that suspicion confirmed with evidence. there's little effect from baseless rumors with people arguing over stats and head size. it's a different ballgame when you've got eyewitness testimony from roger clemens' trainer saying he personally injected clemens. saying "oh i always thought roger was on the juice" so this report is nothing new is irrelevant. the report does offer new info because it has factual evidence whereas before only hearsay existed.

call me naive but clemens was a surprise to me. then again, i found it odd when canseco's book came out and clemens kept saying canseco should've kept quiet. i guess i now know why clemens wanted canseco to keep his mouth shut. not exactly for the betterment of baseball and youth sports. clemens was probably sweating bullets.

2) value on game-used items

i think some collectors won't care and they'll continue to keep and collect juiced players while others will be disappointed and they'll sell parts of their collections and cease collecting juiced players. for those who collect for "value/investment", i think the report will have an immensely negative effect because their investment choices are driven by whether the player will eventually get into the HOF or not. i believe the mitchell report will have an effect on whether clemens gets into the hall. if you believe clemens is still a guaranteed HOF'er then explain to me why mcgwire is the only eligible 500 HR hitter who's not in the hall? do you truly believe that bonds is an automatic HOF'er at this point? palmeiro? sosa? before any steroid talks even began, palmeiro items fetched a good price because collectors felt he was an eventual HOF'er. as soon as the steroid talks started and he failed a test, his items plunged in value. who's interested in palmeiro gamers anymore? what are mcgwire gamers fetching now compared to 1998? conversely, ripken items are as valuable as they ever were.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

You think so huh????

If you want there is someone selling some great beachfront property here in a dessert real cheap. After that ill sell you some underwater property where it never rains

lmaooooo

right..because mcgwire and palmiero haven't changed in the fans eyes in the least. their game-used items still fetch the premium they did a few years ago. as well, both of them are 500HR hitters and clearly they're automatic HOF'ers. woops looks like mcgwire's already had some trouble in that dept. clearly their steroid-related issues have had little effect on their legacies and HOF chances.

TFig27 is right.

rudy.

[suave1477]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

KingJammy im not gonna go back and forth with you I will just say I disagree and leave it at that.

[Nnunnari]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

This may be a shocker to some of you, but Pujols and Bagwell did take steroids even though they weren't in the Mitchell report. But really, who cares? Everybody did it, doesn't take away from how good they were.

[bigtruck260]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

This may be a shocker to some of you, but Pujols and Bagwell did take steroids even though they weren't in the Mitchell report. But really, who cares? Everybody did it, doesn't take away from how good they were.

I wonder if attoneys are scouring sites like GUU, etc. to see if anyone makes blatant accusations. Do you have proof of this? If not, then it is only a fairy tale. If you do have proof, I am sure CNN or Fox would give you enough money to buy everything you ever wanted to decorate your office.

Dave

[frikativ54]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

ROFLMAO!

[nomah!]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

I really wish people would stop posting names NOT ON THE LIST as if they are guilty. Pujols? Bagwell? Nomar!?!? ;-)

These guys may or may not have--but the real list is bad enough. Let's not contribute to damaging more player reputations and people's GU & autograph collections.

[JETEFAN]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

Is this really a shocker?......Dan Duquette ( former Red Sox GM ) could not justify paying Roger the money he wanted back in 1996-1997 to guy whose career was declining and was only hitting the low 90's on his fastball. All of a sudden he ends up in Toronto bulked up and wins 2 cy youngs? Look at his numbers in his last years in Boston:

1993: 11 - 14
1994: 9-7
1995: 10-5
1996: 10-13

record was 40-39 for the last 4 years in Boston, then he shows up in toronto with new body and goes 21-7 and 20-6 with a couple of cy youngs??

Clemens has been pretty consistant with his ERA during his career,(2-4) Wins and losses has a lot to due with run support! In 94 as you point out, He went 9-7, yet his ERA was 2.85, in the top 8 of his carrer!!!! 1997, one of the best seasons of his career, 21-7 and an ERA of 2.05!!! This comming one year BEFORE his alledged steroid use. Sour Grapes, Mitchell who works for the Red Sox was in my opinion the wrong person to carry out this investigation, shoud have been someone not associated with any team. Many players and teams over looked, and teams singled out...Just my humble opinion.

George

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

Looks like baseball's dirty little secret is now out in the open. Baseball has just two choices: Either end it now by aggressive drug testing or, let it continue and ruin what's left of the game. As I've said in previous threads, MLB wants all of their members to be positive role models. MLB has talked the talk now let's see if MLB can walk the walk.

I can't think of any "legitimate" business that allows it's members to sell, buy and use illegal substances except drug cartels.

As for the commish, he has to go. If asterisk's are to be placed in the record books, the commish should get one for his poor handling of the entire affair.

Jim

[suave1477]

Re: Sell your Clemens stuff..

Looks like baseball's dirty little secret is now out in the open. Baseball has just two choices: Either end it now by aggressive drug testing or, let it continue and ruin what's left of the game. As I've said in previous threads, MLB wants all of their members to be positive role models. MLB has talked the talk now let's see if MLB can walk the walk.
Jim

I would just like to add to this as far as MLB just ending that is impossible and to expect them to do that is asking a bit much because you could never completely control it.

But MLB could try too and inforce it in a way where extreme punishments get handed out if the player does not comply or tests positive.
Example - instead of suspending a guy 15 or 30 games (Which mind is absolutely nothing and is a complete joke if you ask me) But suspend them for a full season or even worse ban them from Baseball, sure at first its gonna hurt but in the long run the game will be ten times cleaner and more fans will believe in the game again