Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

[Swoboda4]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

ROGER CLEMENS. In 1996 he leaves Boston and WE ALL thought that, as is,we've seen a Hall of Fame career and it's winding down. So what happens?- he gets a well deserved payday and ends a distinguished career in Toronto? Ahhh-no. He baloons to 220 lbs and wins four additional Cy Yound awards. When he was in his prime he managed to win only one. As in the case of Bonds a picture(s)worth a thousand words.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

As in the case of Bonds a picture(s)worth a thousand words.

So your idea of a trial is to look at before and after pictures?

When will the users of this forum stop with the assumptions. Even ESPN has been reporting today that Bud Selig is investigating "ALLEGED" Steroid use.

Nothing is proven, unless you folks are all Joseph McCarthy wanna-bes.

[suave1477]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Swoboda whaaaaaaaaaaat thats crazy clemens? oh come on he just ate too much McDonalds lol lol

But I did hear McDonalds injects there meat with steroids lol

[trsent]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

He is right, Roger became bigger and won Cy Young Awards.

He should be castrated already!

No trial, just the members of this forum determining who did and who didn't abuse drugs.

Is Ferguson Jenkins still in the Hall of Fame? He should have been executed by now for using drugs.

[skipcareyisfat]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Give me a break. What an absolute joke to say that anyone should be "ashamed" of talking about a bunch of guys that they don't want to collect. Did anyone say, "none of these guys should ever work again or pass some sort of government security screen?" NO. Is this so-called witch-hunt being led by one or two guys? NO.

The fact is, Joel, that a lot of guys DID use steroids, whether you choose to believe it or not. I'll take the words of Grace, Gwynn, Caminiti, Canseco (who, by the way, IS the reason we're even talking about this) and whoever else has spoken up about what THEY SAW. Barry Bonds says he didn't do it. Who cares? Look at the EVIDENCE. Do you seriously expect every person who committed a crime or did something stupid to stand up and say "I did it?" We live in a country that encourages people to shirk personal responsibility and it's pathetic.

It's estimated that 70% of guys juiced. If you want to ignore that or the fact the steroids were at least rampant for a dozen or so years, take your place right behind MLB. They'd love the company.

The whole "prove it" theory is bull, in this way, also: With all the talk on this forum about fake jerseys, autographs, etc., according to your logic, in order for something to really be a fake, we'd have a either get a confession from the guy who faked it or we'd have to see it being faked in person. Or perhaps we'd all feel more comfortable if there was a jury conviction and a respective LOA for the fake item was issued for it. And save the response about how the team's jerseys usually look or how the guy usually signs his name. There are exceptions to everything. Or do we need proof?

By the way, I will no longer collect items from:
Macho Man Savage
Eddie the Eagle
Smokey the Bear
or Johnny Lemaster

-Jason

[Swoboda4]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

"Alleged" steroid use? Of course steroids have been used. Grand Jury testimony was unfortunately leaked(which is a crime)and we now know it's not just an assumption. Today's overdue announcement by Bud Selig is in the category of "not letting it happen again"and to "publicly REVEAL USERS" endquote. What is "it" it is steroids and performance enhancers. Selig was asked if a celebration is planned for Bonds eclipsing Ruth and Aaron records. His response was "we'll address that later" not "yes". This is unfortunately a reality not a guess or assumption. And what makes anyone believe only hitters use steroids.pitchers are the exact players that need muscle recovery more than any other player. As far as Clemens is concerned I never seen anyone work out so hard and run that much and not loose weight. He doesn't over eat and his health conscious(?).
No I didn't personally check his blood for substances. But the question was posed,who would you avoid collecting due to the steroids situation and that is the answer that always came to my mind since he left Boston. The other player that bothers me is a favorite of mine,Dykstra. Even major league players have said this now openly on ESPN radio. Dykstra was a skinny kid that in Phila. looked like he got stung by a million bees.He's humongous,ready to explode. Met Pitcher Grant Roberts was suspended by MLB for USING STEROIDS. Twins pitcher Juan Rincon suspended for using steroids,on and on. Ken Caminitti, dead-first to admit using steroids,albeit after retirement. It's not harmless,it alters baseball(Piazza was second in the MVP voting when Caminitti won-a year he admitted using performance enhancers. I'm sorry for the rant,and I like all the members responding to this thread but this thing is killing our sport.
PS:I wote columnist Phil Mushnick about all this and I ended it with,"..if Aaron used steroids how many more home runs would he have hit? Mushnicks answer was,"It not a question of how many more home runs but how long would he have been dead ? ''

[Swoboda4]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Jenkins drug use did not help him win baseball games. It hindered, not enhanced ,his performance. Also AM1000 in Chicago is reporting that 2 all star players(one AL East and one NL Central)have tested postive for steroids and names will soon be revealed. Jim Rome reports Clemens is thought to be the National League player but will not be named(like Grant Roberts,Rincon)pending an appeal.

[STLWSB]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

A list of known users,
1. Palmeiro caught last year by MLB testing
2. Canseco admitted to using in his book
3. Bonds named in book Game of Shadow, you people who dont believe he was a user need to read this book.
4. Cameniti admitted to SI
5. Sheffield admitted to SI that he unknowingly used
6. Giambi Jason admitted in Grand Jury testimony
7. Giambi Jeromy, admitted to I believe a Kansas City newspaper
8. McGwire admitted using Andro, which is now a banned performance enhancer and illegal.
There were also 11 other Major leagures caught in last years testing, and many more minor leagures.

Canseco named in his book
1. Pudge
2. Palmeiro
3. Juan Gonzalez
4. McGwire
5. Tejada, although Canseco did not directly accuse Tejada in the book, he did innsinuate use.

Just because some of the players like Sosa have not been caught and convited in a US court of law does not mean they have not used steriods. If you have to be told something by our Goverment to make up your mind on something, you have a big problem. Why dont you invite OJ Simpson over for a nice steak dinner, if you are so trusting of him. You probably also backed Pete Rose for a decade when he denied gambling on baseball.

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

I see the day when MLB gets hit with a wrongful death suit. A widow of a baseball player who died from steroid use will file it. His/her claim will be, baseball knew about the problem but did nothing to correct it. Of course in his/her claim, they would have to prove there was a direct correlation between steroid use and the death. I don’t think it would be too difficult to prove baseball’s inaction.

[Yankwood]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

I'm not sure if she used steroids or not, but I can't think of anyone I dislike more than Rosie O'Donnell. She really looked huge in "League of Their Own".

[Swoboda4]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

She looks the same to me.

[Nathan]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Mr. Alpert,

Funny that you should bring up Joe McCarthy. As any student of history can tell you, McCarthy had a lot more right than he did wrong. Read up on the Venona Project sometime if you'd like to see how deep communist infiltration of the US government ran; it included (besides some such as Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs) higher-ups in the Treasury Department, Justice Department, military, assistants to FDR, members of the War Production Board, and a few from the Manhattan Project (besides Klaus Fuchs, Robert and Katherine Oppenheimer also had NKVD files).

[seven4five20]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

Dudes, Clemens was just saying his prayers and taking his vitamins, brother!!

Seriously though, I go to atleast 20 BoSox games a year. He used to be my favorite before "wanting to be closer to home", then leaving the country (we all know about the real beef, Dan Duquette). He was getting real fat, not beefy, fat, like El Guapo fat, in 95/96. I think he mearly just trained hard when he got that payday, knowing he had to ressurect his career a little, and prove himself, and turned that physical fatness into some lean mass.

[trsent]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

As usual, the purists on GUU feel they are right and won't list to the other side.

You folks should get your heads out of the sand, because you have labeled accusations on players who there is no proof, just your opinion.

And to whoever defended Joe McCarthy, that is just too funny.

[Yankwood]

Re: Steroids, Collectors Blacklist

As usual, the purists on GUU feel they are right and won't list to the other side.

You folks should get your heads out of the sand, because you have labeled accusations on players who there is no proof, just your opinion.

And to whoever defended Joe McCarthy, that is just too funny.

Why?