Can anyone calculate how much PED's add to a palyer's stats?

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  • Nathan
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 380

    #16
    Re: Can anyone calculate how much PED's add to a palyer's stats?

    Originally posted by KrAzY3
    #2 Luis Gonzalez
    I don't hear his name very often, ironically I have heard him as someone that should have won a MVP over a steroid user, but to me he's a perfect example of what a user would look like. Up until his 30s, Luis was a soft hitter. He never hit more than 15 home runs. Then, he puts on muscle and has a string of 20+ home run seasons that extend into his mid 30s. Including a 57 home run season. He was able to kind of fly under the radar doing this because everyone was hitting so many home runs, but why did no one stop to ask why a soft hitting skinny kid suddenly hits 57 home runs? Compared to a hitter like McGriff (it's almost a joke now to say he was one of baseball's greatest sluggers but up until people started hitting 50 left and right he was) Luis shows a highly abnormal career arch. McGriff's peak power years were prior to his 30s and while he showed power into his late 30s it was not out of line with any of his previous production.

    I'm a bit biased as I am a Braves fan so my examples are former Braves players. I watched them the most so I feel I'm more aware of their players.
    Sorry to chop so much out, but this is what I wanted to address.

    We don't know much about Luis Gonzalez; namely, I don't believe there's actually been a careful and intensive study done on his career. I reference another former Brave: Hank Aaron. His numbers look incredibly consistent from one year to the next over his entire career, but it's really an illusion. Milwaukee County Stadium happened to cater (slightly) to his skill set, so he started his career off with a bang. They moved to Atlanta's Launching Pad, which catered more to his skill set, so he continued to produce at the same rate as he had before. Then when he started to decline, they made the famous adjustments after the 1968 season and his numbers went right back to normal.

    The reason I mention this with Luis Gonzalez is because, in the absence of being able to carefully assess what exactly the ballparks did to him or for him, we can't really say one way or another. He played a good chunk of his career in the Astrodome, which would certainly have a detrimental effect on power numbers. He spent a year in Tiger Stadium, which would have a similar effect. He then went to Arizona, which would largely have a positive impact.

    For another example, look at David Ortiz. When Boston signed him on Bill James' recommendation for $700,000 a year, the logic was this. He had so much power as a pull hitter that he could hit home runs to right field in Fenway (not an easy thing to do). If he went to the opposite field, a hard fly ball would still be a home run. His power has begun to decline a bit over the last two years, so he's not hitting as hard when he pulls but his timing is still good enough that he's not consistently going opposite field.
    Looking for Duane Kuiper home run baseballs

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    • spagar
      Junior Member
      • Jul 2009
      • 1

      #17
      Re: Can anyone calculate how much PED's add to a palyer's stats?

      You could subtract the home runs hit in his home ballparks and see how the home runs in the rest of the parks compare. Then you would be able to tell how much impact the home park had and how much PED's impacted the totals from the other parks.

      Originally posted by cjclong
      I'm certainly not going to argue that PED's don't inflate statistics. But let's look at ARod's home run statistics from 96 to 03.
      Seattle 96 36 home runs
      Seattle 97 23 home runs
      Seattle 98 42 home runs
      Seattle 99 42 home runs
      Seattle 00 41 home runs

      Texas 01 52 home runs
      Texas 02 57 home runs
      Texas 03 47 home runs

      ARod acknowledges using steroids in Texas. If this is accurate he was hitting an average of 42 home runs a year in Seattle from 98 through 2000 without steroids. The three years with Texas he averaged 52 home runs, 10 more a season. However Texas is without question a better home run hitters park than the one in Seattle. So a hitter going from Seatlle to Texas should hit more home runs. So how much was his home run increase due to Steroids and how much the ballpark? Is there any way you can calculate what it did for him? When you factor in the difference in the ballparks I don't see how.

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      • rj_lucas
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2009
        • 489

        #18
        Re: Can anyone calculate how much PED's add to a palyer's stats?

        Originally posted by Nathan
        If you want to examine for excess growth hormone, it would require a year-to-year analysis of the player's fingers and toes. The reason I say this is because the body needs calcium for muscle contractions, and as a result muscle tissue can add something called the sarcoplasmic reticulum to areas of heavy use. Someone that goes through grueling lifting workouts over an extended period of time can begin to take on a different appearance. Why? Because the tendency when lifting heavy objects is to clench the jaw and contract the muscles of the face.

        Where you're sitting, act like you're picking something heavy up. You can feel the muscle protruding near where the jaw attaches to the skull. You can also feel it protruding in the temples, in the cheeks, and next to the eyes. Over a period of time, enough calcium is secreted that it starts depositing and increasing the density of the bone in those areas. Whereas someone may do a strenuous arm workout (where a particular muscle is worked x amount of times, then another muscle x amount of times, and so on), the face basically gets a workout the entire time.

        On the other hand, someone whose toes become like sausages from age 25 to 35....that's another story.

        Very infomative post. I was going to say something similar in regards to Rudy's photo montage, but minus your knowledge of human physiology.

        Comparing the heads of Ripken and Alomar's to those of McGwire and Bonds is simply not valid. The intense conditioning regimens of contemporary power hitters (including McGwire and Bonds) are well documented.

        Putting aside for a moment the question of who used and who didn't, that level of conditioning will change the size of your neck and head, period.

        Rick
        rickjlucas@gmail.com

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