Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

[ldonley]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I don't know if I would consider a hall call for Alomar an 'ultimate joke'.

I don't think he will get in because of personality issues (Hirschbeck) and the fact he tended to play short stints on multiple teams.

But it's traditionally tough for second basemen to get in the hall even when their careers are played on a single team. If I recall he was selected as an AS more than any other second basemen (tied with Fox), career .300 hitter, over 2700 hits, and was a monster player during his 5 year stint with the Jays, 3 years in Baltimore, and 3 years in Cleveland. Tended to be clutch in his post-season appearances as well. If I managed in the 90's, I would have penciled him in for 2B on my dream team, and I would vote for him now. But that won't happen, unfortunately, more than any other on field accomplishment, people will remember him turning and spitting in an umpire's face.

[gingi79]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Topic is who we wanted in and in that case, Dale Murphy all the way. Played with some truly "bleh" Braves teams and was the best player in baseball for a few years. Then he got injured and old.

The stat accumulator debate will rage forever. Spending 20+ years just not being hurt and putting up modest numbers just to get to the magic 300 wins or 500 HRs or 3000 Hits just means you were a mediocre player that was lucky enough to play a childs game for two decades. The Hall of Reasonably good to great players will induct you though because those are the criteria. Like it or not, if you play 30 years and get 100 hits a season, you are a HOFer 5 years later.

It's all subjective anyway. The roles for players have changed as the sport has. Who would have thought watching MLB in 1981 that a natural shortstop would be considered the best all around and offensive player in baseball? Had the Steroid Issue not arisen, who wouldn't have unanimously elected A-Rod 5 years after he retired?

Should we hold players of yesteryear accountable for their lower numbers because today's stars are so much better? Will the cloud of Steroid Use taint players chances because they were suspected?

Or worse, will the 2nd and 3rd tier players be elected simply because they hit .270-389 hrs-2300 hits but naturally?

[whatupyos]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Realistically: Andre, Smith, Bert.


Alomar?!?! Are you people for real? Come on!! To me that is the ultimate joke.

[tjm5711]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Clemens took 24 seasons to get 354 wins. Does that make Ryan any less of a HOF'er?

Totally agree with you about accumulation. In some cases, it means nothing. Clemens did get his wins faster - and he also played for some great teams - while Nolan Ryan was winning 20 games and striking out the entire league while his team was in last place....it's all relative. Both were dominant. No comment on Clemens chances.

As far as Larkin/Smith...Barry was a much better offensive machine. He should be in the Hall - no doubt. Ozzie's greatness came from being the acrobatic figurehead for the speed demon 1980's Cardinals...one of the better teams in franchise history. Ozzie's popularity was HUGE and transcended the game, which in most cases is what the Hall is all about.

He was the number one vote getter in the ASG for years based on his defense alone.

I couldn't agree with you more. Ozzie Smith was the face of the Cardinals' Championship brand of baseball in the mid 80's.(winning with speed on astroturf) He was a tremendous fan favorite, but Larkin was easily a better all-around player. The only knock Barry was that he was injury prone. But he still managed to put a tremendous career together in between those stints on the DL.

[bigtruck260]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Clemens took 24 seasons to get 354 wins. Does that make Ryan any less of a HOF'er?

Totally agree with you about accumulation. In some cases, it means nothing. Clemens did get his wins faster - and he also played for some great teams - while Nolan Ryan was winning 20 games and striking out the entire league while his team was in last place....it's all relative. Both were dominant. No comment on Clemens chances.

As far as Larkin/Smith...Barry was a much better offensive machine. He should be in the Hall - no doubt. Ozzie's greatness came from being the acrobatic figurehead for the speed demon 1980's Cardinals...one of the better teams in franchise history. Ozzie's popularity was HUGE and transcended the game, which in most cases is what the Hall is all about.

He was the number one vote getter in the ASG for years based on his defense alone.

[tjm5711]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Excellent point, about how the 500 Club is full of juicers. What a stain it will forever leave on Baseball. When you're talking about all-time records being tainted, it really doesn't get more sacred than that. The Hawk was a class act. way more so, than Robbie Alomar. But the fact that Alomar put up those outstanding numbers as a Second baseman will be hard for him not to get in. It was one mistake, and granted you can't keep a guy out for just that. You have to admit, it was a bit humerous.(in a twisted sort of way) But as far as role-models go, I totally agree with you !

[ironmanfan]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

What about a 6x All-Star, 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, 1 MVP and 1 Batting Title. A lifetime .307 avg. 2153 Hits, 222 HR, 1099 RBIs. All done in a injury shorten, 13 seasons carrer. Also considered by most a the best 1st baseman in MLB for a decade??????

a first baseman with only 222 career Home Runs?...come on..if Mattingly had played for the Royals or Brewers, no one would have cared (I know the injuries argument)

Hall of Good (not Fame)

[vballGuy]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Robbie Alomar all the way!

[legaleagle92481]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Now and until the day I pass, I will laugh at the phrase "stat accumulator".

Isn't that what every player does? They accumulate stats over their career. Whether it be 5 yrs or 25 yrs. Some players are gifted enough to amass certain numbers in 15-18 yr careers, while it may take another player 22 years to amass near identical numbers.

What's the difference? Really.


Is Rickey not worthy of 3000 hits because it took him 25 or so years?

Would Biggio had made the HOF without 3000 hits, that took him 18 years to get?

Is Nolan Ryan's 5,714 K's any less impressive even though it took him 27 seasons to amass those? In which he ONLY won 324 games in that same time.

Clemens took 24 seasons to get 354 wins. Does that make Ryan any less of a HOF'er?



The term "stat accumulator" is ridiculous, when used to argue that a payer should not be in the HOF. Stats are stats. You reach a certain number (300 W's, 500 hr's, 3000 hit's) and you are, SHOULD BE, in. No matter how many years it takes you to do it. Period.

To clarify I use the term "stat accumulator" to refer to a player who was not a dominant, best at his position type player whose candidacy is based on very good numbers accumulated over a long career but who fell short of a magic number milestone like 300 wins or 500 homers. Bert B. is the prime example of this. When he pitched did anyone really and honestly view him as one of the best pitchers in baseball or more importantly as a guy who would be in the Hall someday? Or is it just now years after he threw his last pitch the numbers he accumulated over a very long career statheads are just using to justify why he should be in the Hall? In my opinion it is the later. If he had reached 300 wins I would say put him in but he did not and since he was not one of the best pitchers of his era he should stay out. Was he really better than Tommy John or Jim Kaat two guys who also had long careers with many wins but fell short of 300 and were not among the best pitchers in baseball when they played? Was he as good as Jack Morris, the undisputed ace of three world series winning teams and the best pitcher of the 1980's?

[NYCrulesU]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

What about a 6x All-Star, 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, 1 MVP and 1 Batting Title. A lifetime .307 avg. 2153 Hits, 222 HR, 1099 RBIs. All done in a injury shorten, 13 seasons carrer. Also considered by most a the best 1st baseman in MLB for a decade??????

Mattingly, as much as I liked him, is no HOF'er.

[geoff]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I want to see Robbie Alomar as He is One of my all Time Favorite Orioles And I think one of The Top 2nd Baseman in The Last 15 Years or so.

[dirtyla2000]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

[quote=tjm5711;178111]I'm primarily a Cub fan, and I watched many of Andre Dawson's years with them. Granted I didn't see his earlier years with the Expos before his knees got bad. but, I look at his numbers and just don't see why he should be in. I think the fact that there are so many guys in the 500 home run club now, and that he didn't come close to that hurts him a lot. Also the fact he did absolutely nothing in the post season and has no WS rings, you have to rely heavily on his stats. Other than his 1987 MVP year, and his early stolen base numbers, nothing really separates him. He was a career .279 hitter, and he never really combined any serious power numbers with those great stolen base totals. Anyways, I'd love for somebody to make a good argument for why he
500hr club is full of juicers,Dawson was a class act and dominated his position for a long time! As for Alomar,spitting in an Umps face is unforgiveable.Even though there was an apology this guy is a bad role model.

[jetersbatboy]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

What about a 6x All-Star, 9 Gold Gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, 1 MVP and 1 Batting Title. A lifetime .307 avg. 2153 Hits, 222 HR, 1099 RBIs. All done in a injury shorten, 13 seasons carrer. Also considered by most a the best 1st baseman in MLB for a decade??????

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Now that's a question that will be answered soon !

Yes it will! I am hoping that he gets in. Every year I defend my reasoning of why he should be in... but this is the first year I have predicted he will actually be voted in. I can see him signing his name with H.O.F 2010 already...we'll see.

[tjm5711]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I would have to disagree I think this is the year the Hawk gets in.

Now that's a question that will be answered soon !