Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

this article says it all.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=4776214&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I never said I wanted EVERY Hall of Famer to have those numbers. Like I said, you made very solid points. You can debate for days who should, and shouldn't be in the hall. And in my opinion Andre Dawson, shouldn't get in. And I really doubt he ever will !

I would have to disagree I think this is the year the Hawk gets in.

[tjm5711]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Dawson was not blessed to be on winning teams I can't hold that against him. As far as the big milestones 3000 and 500....they certainly look nice but Dawson was not too far offfrom these milestones..There are some guys that achieve one or the other and are "locks"..Dawson was not far from either really and yet was a Silver Slugger who possessed one of the best arms to play the game and a gold glove. He was a well-rounded player who could do it all.

If you want every Hall of Famer to have a .300 batting average, 3,000 hits 500 hrs....then we might have to take hall of famers out and only elect very very few players in the future..

Dawson was one of very few TRUE 5-tool players to play the game. His 400/300 was a feat that Ruth, Aaron, Dimaggio, Williams, Musial, Cobb and tons of other greats could not achieve I'll take that over one key milestone any day.

I never said I wanted EVERY Hall of Famer to have those numbers. Like I said, you made very solid points. You can debate for days who should, and shouldn't be in the hall. And in my opinion Andre Dawson, shouldn't get in. And I really doubt he ever will !

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I just think a player with zero WS appearances, and a .189 postseason average should have more solid lifetime stats. An average closer to .300,3,000 hits,500 homeruns. You bring up good points, and give a strong view. Just the way I see it.

Dawson was not blessed to be on winning teams I can't hold that against him. As far as the big milestones 3000 and 500....they certainly look nice but Dawson was not too far offfrom these milestones..There are some guys that achieve one or the other and are "locks"..Dawson was not far from either really and yet was a Silver Slugger who possessed one of the best arms to play the game and a gold glove. He was a well-rounded player who could do it all.

If you want every Hall of Famer to have a .300 batting average, 3,000 hits 500 hrs....then we might have to take hall of famers out and only elect very very few players in the future..

Dawson was one of very few TRUE 5-tool players to play the game. His 400/300 was a feat that Ruth, Aaron, Dimaggio, Williams, Musial, Cobb and tons of other greats could not achieve I'll take that over one key milestone any day.

[tjm5711]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

It should be noted that the guy was playing with two terrible knees because some people may not know..its not the reason he should get in but worth pointing out. There are some people out that you could argue should be in more but you could also argue there is some in already that Dawson deserves to be in over.

Dawson was an 8 time gold glove outfielder and was a 400 HR guy while stealing 300 bases. That is hall of fame credentials. Add in the fact he was revered as a teammate and his opponents had great respect and fear the guy..he deserves in.

All legit numbers without the worry of altered numbers by PED's

I just think a player with zero WS appearances, and a .189 postseason average should have more solid lifetime stats. An average closer to .300,3,000 hits,500 homeruns. You bring up good points, and give a strong view. Just the way I see it.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Yeah, but to even put what somebody MIGHT have done IF their knees weren't chronically injured into the equation is just not right. I don't have a huge problem with him going in. I just think he was as good(and not much better) than a lot of players who have never gotten in.

It should be noted that the guy was playing with two terrible knees because some people may not know..its not the reason he should get in but worth pointing out. There are some people out that you could argue should be in more but you could also argue there is some in already that Dawson deserves to be in over.

Dawson was an 8 time gold glove outfielder and was a 400 HR guy while stealing 300 bases. That is hall of fame credentials. Add in the fact he was revered as a teammate and his opponents had great respect and fear the guy..he deserves in.

All legit numbers without the worry of altered numbers by PED's

[tjm5711]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

If Barry Larkin doesn't make it in it will be a travesty. Greater than Ozzie Smith!

Being a Cub fan, The last thing I want to do is agree with a Reds fan.LOL BUT, I must say. "AMEN BROTHER" LOL. Larkin, was an AWESOME shortstop. He was a feared clutch hitter, and it would be a crime if he doesn't get in on the first ballot !

[tjm5711]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I am a Cardinals fan and I strongly feel that Dawson is a Hall of Fame. If Dawson was healthy who knows what his stats could have been but even with the bad knees his accomplishments are Hall worthy in my opinion... His character is Hall worthy and that will become more and more important I feel as it seems public opinion is dictating who gets in...it is no longer about stats completely whether justified or not.....I will do my best to make a case for him.

An 8-time gold glove outfielder with one of the strongest arms in baseball history to go along with the glove.

An 8 time all-star, Rookie of the year, MVP on a last place team.

400/300 Club....Dawson is one of only three players with 400 or more home runs and 300 or more stolen bases. Other two in the club Willie Mays and Barry Bonds.

The Hawk was once intentionally walked 5 times in one game..this just goes to show how respected and feared the guy was..He was one of the most dominant players of his era.

The players he played with and more importantly the ones he played against say he is no doubt a hall of famer if there ever was one.

Yeah, but to even put what somebody MIGHT have done IF their knees weren't chronically injured into the equation is just not right. I don't have a huge problem with him going in. I just think he was as good(and not much better) than a lot of players who have never gotten in.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Andre Dawson...as a CUB!

Dave M.
Chicago area

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

I'm primarily a Cub fan, and I watched many of Andre Dawson's years with them. Granted I didn't see his earlier years with the Expos before his knees got bad. but, I look at his numbers and just don't see why he should be in. I think the fact that there are so many guys in the 500 home run club now, and that he didn't come close to that hurts him a lot. Also the fact he did absolutely nothing in the post season and has no WS rings, you have to rely heavily on his stats. Other than his 1987 MVP year, and his early stolen base numbers, nothing really separates him. He was a career .279 hitter, and he never really combined any serious power numbers with those great stolen base totals. Anyways, I'd love for somebody to make a good argument for why he should so emphatically be in. The only two I see that truly deserve to be in are :

>Barry Larkin
>Jack Morris

Both put up great numbers and were on some of the greatest teams of their era !

I am a Cardinals fan and I strongly feel that Dawson is a Hall of Fame. If Dawson was healthy who knows what his stats could have been but even with the bad knees his accomplishments are Hall worthy in my opinion... His character is Hall worthy and that will become more and more important I feel as it seems public opinion is dictating who gets in...it is no longer about stats completely whether justified or not.....I will do my best to make a case for him.

An 8-time gold glove outfielder with one of the strongest arms in baseball history to go along with the glove.

An 8 time all-star, Rookie of the year, MVP on a last place team.

400/300 Club....Dawson is one of only three players with 400 or more home runs and 300 or more stolen bases. Other two in the club Willie Mays and Barry Bonds.

The Hawk was once intentionally walked 5 times in one game..this just goes to show how respected and feared the guy was..He was one of the most dominant players of his era.

The players he played with and more importantly the ones he played against say he is no doubt a hall of famer if there ever was one.

[33bird]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Yea, I know. Really, I need to study it more before I say that about Larkin. I'm more of a 70s Reds guy, so my opinion about Larkin is worth my usuall 2 cents....

[justinwc80]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Greg,
You're killing me (especially for a Reds fan ), he compares so much better than so many HOF players and shortstops. The only knock on him is that he missed alot of games due to injuries, but he performed well enough over so many years I can't see any reason he shouldn't be a first ballot HOFer.
Great article by Jayson Stark

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4777032

But these conversations are why I love sports

[33bird]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Bert Behome Byleven
Jack Morris.
Bert's a no brainer. I think Jack should get in for his accomplishments combined with his Rings. I think he has 4, and he was a pretty big part of 3/4.
I'd love to see Larkin get in, but I'm not sure he warrants it. Maybe I'm wrong.

[justinwc80]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

Larkin/Smith 19 seasons
162 game avgs Larkin .295 avg, Smith .262, HR 15 to 2, RBI 71 to 50
Total career errors Larkin 235, Smith 281
Larkin won MVP, Smith finished 2nd once
Smith had 15 all star games, Larkin 12

Obviously stats don't tell the whole story but we all have to be honest and realize that Smith wasn't the best SS in the game for many of the all star appearances. Larkin never had the flash of Ozzie but was a wonder in the field and revolutionized the position. I can respect an argument either way, but I think the stats support my opinion. Love to hear other thoughts.

[harpt]

Re: Hof Induction On Wednesday.who Doyou Want In

If Barry Larkin doesn't make it in it will be a travesty. Greater than Ozzie Smith!

WOW!! Seriously?? Ozzie was a better defender (one of the all-time greatest) and had more hits (in the same number of seasons) than Larkin. Plus all those stolen bases and World Series rings.

I know you're a Cincy guy so I get it...I am always clamoring for Ted Simmons too (more hits than any other catcher).