Mac admits using steroids...

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Good points STL. I read an article that the FBI knew of McGwire's steroid use since 1993 but they were only concerned with the suppliers. They didn't have the resources to get everyone so they went after the big time suppliers which makes sense. But that's the risk when you do drugs, you never know the time or place but sooner or later, you're going to get busted.

I don't think it has to do with having a big time lawyer or money to get a big time lawyer as Steve hinted at with some professional athletes. McGwire was not granted immunity. Any lawyer, even a public defender would advise their client to take the 5th if their client wasn't granted immunity. I can't understand why Mark wasn't given immunity. Things would have been a whole lot different. Giambi had immunity, Bonds would have if he just admitted it. From what I've read anyway. I heard they were told to tell what they knew and nothing would happen.

Aaron

Having the media cover everything makes it tough to give any star athlete a free pass on anything. Press conferences are held to discuss minor issues, if it was a regular Joe nobody would even care. These guys make tons of money and part of the exposure is the price of fame but these guys are human and make mistakes too. The only difference is when they mess up their lives are scrutinized down to every tiny detail.

McGwire should have been granted immunity because he was ready to talk and even admitted use in private meetings. These guys questioning him knew that he was obviously not going to impicate himself and knew that he was not granted immunity.

McGwire needs to just say its impossible to tell how much steroids helped or hurt me. Because it is! Maybe it led to his problems with joints later in his career maybe it didnt't. Maybe it helped him hit another 5 hr's in 98 maybe it didn't. Who knows?

Here is how I look at Mac saying steroids did not help him...It would be worse for him to say they made the biggest difference, I was healthy and it gave me huge strength benefits, helped me see and hit a baseball...It made me be the best power hitter in the world, without them I wouldn't be half the player...what kid listening is going to think "oh steroids are bad"...here is a guy in his late 40's still healthy hitting balls out 20 in a row in batting practice according to Brendan Ryan and Schumaker. If a kid is deciding whether or not to use based on if Mac said that he would probably choose to use..

Now with McGwire actually saying I could still have been the player I was without them, they did not make me a better baseball just caused me alot of guilt because I knew they were illegal and now I have to dissapointed friends and family. Much better message for a kid to hear in my opinion.

[whatupyos]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Good points STL. I read an article that the FBI knew of McGwire's steroid use since 1993 but they were only concerned with the suppliers. They didn't have the resources to get everyone so they went after the big time suppliers which makes sense. But that's the risk when you do drugs, you never know the time or place but sooner or later, you're going to get busted.

I don't think it has to do with having a big time lawyer or money to get a big time lawyer as Steve hinted at with some professional athletes. McGwire was not granted immunity. Any lawyer, even a public defender would advise their client to take the 5th if their client wasn't granted immunity. I can't understand why Mark wasn't given immunity. Things would have been a whole lot different. Giambi had immunity, Bonds would have if he just admitted it. From what I've read anyway. I heard they were told to tell what they knew and nothing would happen.

Aaron

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Also another guy that stardom actually hurt was Plaxico Buress who was arrested and charged in the city that he had just won a superbowl in.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

I think Jim's point was that if you're rich here in America, and you have status, popularity, a prestigious job and are loved by many, you can fairly often get away with almost anything.

Sound familiar? Like maybe the life of a star athlete? You can obtain the best legal advice money can buy as evidenced by how Mark handled himself at the congressional hearings.

While on the other hand, if you're an inner city struggling youth.....you are nothing more than a feeder rat which the local police department recruits will use to "break in their teeth" on. No support, no money.....no mercy.

Yeah....it's unfair Jim.

If you are a star it can be used against you as well, when a "star" has things in their personal life the whole world knows. The feds did not care if it was McGwire or Joe Schmoe at the gym. There are hundreds connected that did not get persued not just the star atheletes. It all depends what the case is. If Mark was a big time supplier it would have been different. When faced with enough public outcry then it can change as well...for instance Mike Vick was used as an example.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

I think Jim's point was that if you're rich here in America, and you have status, popularity, a prestigious job and are loved by many, you can fairly often get away with almost anything.

Sound familiar? Like maybe the life of a star athlete? You can obtain the best legal advice money can buy as evidenced by how Mark handled himself at the congressional hearings.

While on the other hand, if you're an inner city struggling youth.....you are nothing more than a feeder rat which the local police department recruits will use to "break in their teeth" on. No support, no money.....no mercy.

Yeah....it's unfair Jim.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

So I am trying to understand the McGuire incident. A poor kid in the inner City uses and/or sells illegal drugs. If he is caught, he is arrested. If the investigation shows that other people knew about the sales, they too are arrested for conspiracy.

But, if you are Mark McGuire and other "Star" baseball players and/or the Commissioner of baseball, it's OK.

Just my opinion - hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

This is a bad example because often times when there is a federal investigation, as what took place with McGwire, they could care less about busting a few kids.

What the Feds want is the supplier, the big dealers that are worth the federal government to go after. The Feds are not going to get involved to bust a couple of kids with a few ounces of marijuana on them. The Local police department may be interested in something like that but the FBI will not come busting down doors for users.

[whatupyos]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

So I am trying to understand the McGuire incident. A poor kid in the inner City uses and/or sells illegal drugs. If he is caught, he is arrested. If the investigation shows that other people knew about the sales, they too are arrested for conspiracy.

But, if you are Mark McGuire and other "Star" baseball players and/or the Commissioner of baseball, it's OK.

Just my opinion - hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

Jim,

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm interested in criminal law and know the law pretty well, but I also could make mistakes. But, just becasue someone admits to use, you have to find evidence against it. Anyone can claim they used drugs but a claim alone won't get you arrested. I'm trying hard to understand your statment so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding. You mentioned if an inner city kid is caught he will go to jail....key word is caught. If the kid is caught you have evidence, i.e. drugs, pipe, papers, whatever. In McGwire's case you only have the confession that he used, no evidence.

I still think you have to have evidence that someone knew of another's use to get arrested. It has to be something solid. But I could be wrong. Generally the police only care about the top of the line suppliers not the casual recreational users, but again I say generally.

Aaron

[cohibasmoker]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

So I am trying to understand the McGuire incident. A poor kid in the inner City uses and/or sells illegal drugs. If he is caught, he is arrested. If the investigation shows that other people knew about the sales, they too are arrested for conspiracy.

But, if you are Mark McGuire and other "Star" baseball players and/or the Commissioner of baseball, it's OK.

Just my opinion - hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

He confessed his use privately to a Congressman before the congressional hearings, but the congressman couldn't get a promise of immunity for him from the Attorney General. ( see the article on MLB.com) Thus, he had little choice but to avoid questions at the hearing to avoid prosecution either for perjury or for use. Thus, I think he wanted to come clean long ago, and would've done so with immunity from prosecution.

To me, the real problem was with the Players' association, whose fierce fight to block testing allowed the culture to grow. Since the '94 strike that nearly killed the sport, they've been the big bully on the block; the owners were afraid of how far they'd go. Former Commisioner Fay Vincent, in his book, quoted a major PA official as saying he didn't care if he hurt the sport itself in his defense of the players. The irony is that the PA hurt its clean players in defense of the others.

coxfan,

Not only has the players association "bullied" the sport in making demands for and protecting their cheating members, but in doing so, they ironically destroyed the whole generation in hindsight by the associations very actions. One hell of a legacy left by the recently retired piece of dung, Donald Fehr.

As has been mentioned several times, the owners just "let it ride" because they were reaping the benefits of the resurgence in popularity of the game due to the home run show that endured from all the cheating. Bud Selig too....absent. They all abandoned the true history, respect, and governing duties they were responsible for to the game. The "show" was too much fun.

I think it's poetic justice. And I also believe there has been enough public scrutiny on the "suspected" players of this whole steroids era mess, that when it's all said and done, only "worthy" players will end up in the Hall, as it should be.

But you know, I do believe there are a very selective few Hall of Famers that have squeezed out from under the vise, and got elected into the Hall.....that actually did use for a portion of thier careers. Two come to mind, but I have no proof. The only question is.....if that fact eventually comes out, and is exposed (by Canseco who maybe knows for sure, or someone else...an ex-wife, girfriend, etc.), how will the other Hall of Famers react to it, and what will be done. This is all going to be a very interesting chapter of baseball history as it unfolds and is dealt with by the BBWAA as they place their future votes for the eligible Hall of Fame players. Moving on is important for today's current players, but maintaining the integrity of the record books is just as, if not much more, important to us true baseball historians of the greatest game ever invented.


Nice post, coxfan, I couldn't agree more.

Here's to hoping for a few more ejections this coming year to add to his legacy!!!

[coxfan]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

He confessed his use privately to a Congressman before the congressional hearings, but the congressman couldn't get a promise of immunity for him from the Attorney General. ( see the article on MLB.com) Thus, he had little choice but to avoid questions at the hearing to avoid prosecution either for perjury or for use. Thus, I think he wanted to come clean long ago, and would've done so with immunity from prosecution.

To me, the real problem was with the Players' association, whose fierce fight to block testing allowed the culture to grow. Since the '94 strike that nearly killed the sport, they've been the big bully on the block; the owners were afraid of how far they'd go. Former Commisioner Fay Vincent, in his book, quoted a major PA official as saying he didn't care if he hurt the sport itself in his defense of the players. The irony is that the PA hurt its clean players in defense of the others.

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Just curious...

Was Big Mac truly sorry that he took steroids? Or is he just sorry that he's been backed into such a corner that he's been forced to admit it?

Dave M.
Chicago area

That's a question only Mark can answer. I think he truly is sorry for letting people down though. He feels good to get it off his chest and now he is hoping to get back and be apart of the game. This guy has tons of knowledge when it comes to hitting and can't wait to get around the hitters and also take some BP himself.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Just curious...

Was Big Mac truly sorry that he took steroids? Or is he just sorry that he's been backed into such a corner that he's been forced to admit it?

Dave M.
Chicago area

[coxfan]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

Regarding Maris, remember that the second-place Tigers had a 101-61 record, with the Yankees pulling away only toward the end of the season after sweeping a 3-game series with the Tigers. Nobody's going to go easy on Maris in such a race! They didn't intentionally walk him, but they did try to get him out.

Here in Columbia SC, I've been privileged to meet both Bobby Richardson and Jack Fisher, who threw Maris's 60th, and gotten the auto's of both. I overheard Richardson lamenting to someone that he had had some of Mantle's bats but had disposed of them long ago, never dreaming of their future value.

[suave1477]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

OK, I'm a little bit impressed, but the guy got meat pitches all year long.

I am not so sure about that. In a game against the Orioles in the 9th inning Hoyt Wlhelm one of the best knuckle ball pitchers ever was brought in specifically to face Maris so he wouldn't give him an easy pitch to hit. Rumor has it the Orioles manager even threatened Hoyt that if he gives up a Home Run to Maris he will be fined $5,000.

So believe me, they weren't just all lobbing the ball to Maris.

[RJB44]

Re: Mac admits using steroids...

and someone will still be foolish enough to shell out $800.00 for one of Mac's game used caps!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Oakland-As-MARK-McGWIRE-Game-Used-CAP-w-Auto-PSA-DNA_W0QQitemZ390132798400QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5ba13c0