NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

[xpress34]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

FINAL NUMBERS:


Cargo

BA - .336 - BATTING CHAMP
HR - 34
RBI - 117

Votto

BA - .324
HR - 37
RBI - 113

Pujols

BA - .312
HR - 42 - HOME RUN CHAMP
RBI - 118 - RBI CHAMP

Infante

BA - .321 (Qualified but couldn't keep up the pace)
HR - 8
RBI - 47

Tulowitzki (Not bad numbers for a guy who missed 40 games!)

BA - .312
HR - 28
RBI - 103

That said, I think VOTTO is MVP - Right in the pack and his team is going to the Post Season. Infante's team is going too, but his number's don't bear out MVP consideration.

[lakeerie92]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Oh I hear you, believe me. Nobody knows better than Albert's fans that two of Bonds' MVP awards (2002, 2003) should have gone to Pujols.

So you'll have to forgive us if we can't accept 'he is a boring pick' as a reason not to give him the MVP

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

I am unbiased either way because I don't have a dog in the race. I am only making my prediction as to what will happen. I would like a Votto bat at some point and winning the MVP will only cause me to pay more so I should probably be rooting for Pujols in that sense.

[rj_lucas]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Oh I hear you, believe me. Nobody knows better than Albert's fans that two of Bonds' MVP awards (2002, 2003) should have gone to Pujols.

So you'll have to forgive us if we can't accept 'he is a boring pick' as a reason not to give him the MVP

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[lakeerie92]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

The difference between Votto's .426 OPS and Pujols' .414 is statistically insignificant. So I guess that disqualifies Votto too. That and the fact that he doesn't lead in a single offensive category of course.

But at least both are well ahead of Gonzalez' OPS of .381. That and his 'Coors effect' splits (.386 average at home, .293 on the road, 26 HR at home, *8* on the road) should preclude him from any serious consideration for MVP.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

You aren't listening to what I am saying. Bonds' through the roof OBP made it near impossible to give the MVP to anybody else. Those numbers will never be touched again. My argument is that Pujols has no through the roof numbers that make it impossible to give it to somebody else. His numbers are close to everybody else's. My opinion is Pujols isn't going to win it because he has one that past two and he is a boring pick. I was just trying to illustrate why that was my opinion

[rj_lucas]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Alberts is a .414 and his numbers are so close to other players that I don't think he warrants being put in that category as the only other player to win 3 consecutive MVPs.

The difference between Votto's .426 OPS and Pujols' .414 is statistically insignificant. So I guess that disqualifies Votto too. That and the fact that he doesn't lead in a single offensive category of course.

But at least both are well ahead of Gonzalez' OPS of .381. That and his 'Coors effect' splits (.386 average at home, .293 on the road, 26 HR at home, *8* on the road) should preclude him from any serious consideration for MVP.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[sox83cubs84]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Of course, if you want to turn the contender argument on its head and also add coinsideration to repeat winners, conside the NL's FIRST repeat winner...Hall of Famer Cubs SS Ernie Banks, who took home the award in 1958 and 1959, with the Cubs finihing uner .500 both times. Aberrations DO happen.

Clarification...Banks was the first NL repeat winner in CONSECUTIVE SEASONS.

Dave M.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Of course, if you want to turn the contender argument on its head and also add coinsideration to repeat winners, conside the NL's FIRST repeat winner...Hall of Famer Cubs SS Ernie Banks, who took home the award in 1958 and 1959, with the Cubs finihing uner .500 both times. Aberrations DO happen.

[lakeerie92]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

I have heard others use that exact argument except saying Albert would have the edge because he has won before. In the past writers have given MVP's to the same players (Pujols, Bonds).

You are right that they do occasionally give it to the same player, but only once in the history of baseball has a player won the MVP in three consecutive years, and that was when Bonds won it in 4 consecutive years. In those Bonds years 2001 he hit 73 HR, 2002 he hit .370 with a .582 OBP, 2003 .529 OBP, 2004 .609 OBP. Alberts is a .414 and his numbers are so close to other players that I don't think he warrants being put in that category as the only other player to win 3 consecutive MVPs. Not yet at least

[flota89]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

You bring up one of the most valid points when it comes to Pujols and the MVP. It gets boring awarding it to him or he already has one, lets give it to someone else. It seems like more and more every year they look for reasons not to give it to him, even though year in and year out he has about the best overall numbers.

I think Votto will win this year only cause the Cardinals will miss the playoffs, and Votto and Pujols numbers are so close. If the Cards made the wildcard then I think it would go to Albert.

I have heard others use that exact argument except saying Albert would have the edge because he has won before. In the past writers have given MVP's to the same players (Pujols, Bonds).

[flota89]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Not sure I would say the Cardinals are really "close" or have been for awhile, 6.5 games and it has been as high as 8 or so the past few weeks is a decent chunk. Teams do not make up that type of spread unless large meltdowns by one team.

Also not to start something but I wouldn't say Votto is significantly far behind him in walks and some of those statistics. At the same point Votto has played in about 8 or 9 less games then Pujols has and still amassed the stats.

Once again not trying to start a fight, just the Reds fan viewpoint.

I think close was just meaning not eliminated with a week to go. While they aren't going to get to post season, the Reds don't have a gigantic lead, but a good one.

While Votto is having a great year, I still believe Pujols is having a better year. If I was a Reds fan, I would probably argue Votto was. I am curious to see what others think on the issue, without worrying about which team is in first.

If we took away team standings, who would everyone vote for based purely on all the stats?

[AWA85]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Not sure I would say the Cardinals are really "close" or have been for awhile, 6.5 games and it has been as high as 8 or so the past few weeks is a decent chunk. Teams do not make up that type of spread unless large meltdowns by one team.

Also not to start something but I wouldn't say Votto is significantly far behind him in walks and some of those statistics. At the same point Votto has played in about 8 or 9 less games then Pujols has and still amassed the stats.

Once again not trying to start a fight, just the Reds fan viewpoint.

[sportscrazy13]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

I think more than likely Pujols will get passed on for the MVP because he has won the last two, and it gets boring awarding it to the same person every year. In past years it was hands down his award, but this year there a several close competitors and I think that and using the excuse that his BA is 20 points below his career average will be used as a reason to spread the award around a little.

You bring up one of the most valid points when it comes to Pujols and the MVP. It gets boring awarding it to him or he already has one, lets give it to someone else. It seems like more and more every year they look for reasons not to give it to him, even though year in and year out he has about the best overall numbers.

I think Votto will win this year only cause the Cardinals will miss the playoffs, and Votto and Pujols numbers are so close. If the Cards made the wildcard then I think it would go to Albert.

[lakeerie92]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

Great point. The Cardinals and Reds really aren't that far apart, so how would it be fair to punish Albert for having the lesser team this year?

I think more than likely Pujols will get passed on for the MVP because he has won the last two, and it gets boring awarding it to the same person every year. In past years it was hands down his award, but this year there a several close competitors and I think that and using the excuse that his BA is 20 points below his career average will be used as a reason to spread the award around a little.

[flota89]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

If the Cardinals were in the middle of the pack, I might agree with you. But as we enter the final week of the season, the Cards have not been (mathematically) eliminated from the postseason. The point being, they got close enough to keep the postseason from being an overriding consideration in the MVP award, in my opinion.

Of course, it can be won even from the middle of the pack, as Albert did in 2008 with the Cardinals fourth in the division. If he finishes the season leading in home runs and RBIs, top five in BA, with significantly more walks and fewer strikeouts than Votto or Gonzalez, I don't see how Pujols could not be the frontrunner for the award.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

Great point. The Cardinals and Reds really aren't that far apart, so how would it be fair to punish Albert for having the lesser team this year?

[rj_lucas]

Re: NL MVP Race should go to the wire!!!!

With stats being so close all around, I am going to take the bias road and say which player is leading his team to the playoffs. Yes, the Rockies may have a chance but Mr. Votto will be playing postseason baseball not Pujols this year.

If the Cardinals were in the middle of the pack, I might agree with you. But as we enter the final week of the season, the Cards have not been (mathematically) eliminated from the postseason. The point being, they got close enough to keep the postseason from being an overriding consideration in the MVP award, in my opinion.

Of course, it can be won even from the middle of the pack, as Albert did in 2008 with the Cardinals fourth in the division. If he finishes the season leading in home runs and RBIs, top five in BA, with significantly more walks and fewer strikeouts than Votto or Gonzalez, I don't see how Pujols could not be the frontrunner for the award.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com