Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

[coxfan]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

I've personally known a number of folks who had to flee Castro, and none of them would say a kind word about him. Plus, I lived through the Cuban missile crisis of 1962. All us kids went to high school during the crisis, thinking that nuclear war might break out that day.

So I've studied historical accounts that have been put together about that crisis years later (when some of the people involved, including both Americans and Russians, could talk), and they indicated that Castro came close to igniting a nuclear war. The facts are that JFK resisted military demands that he launch a preemptive invasion to prevent the USSR from bringing in nuclear weapons. But JFK sensed that there might already be some nuclear weapons in Cuba, so he refused to invade. Instead, he gambled on issuing a public statement that he would give a "full retaliatory response" against the USSR if anything was launched from Cuba.

Krushchev knew that there were some nuclear missiles in Cuba, and that Castro was raging to be allowed to use them. That caused Krushchev to to work behind the scenes to defuse the crisis, while having to restrain the emotional Castro from doing anything foolish.

As for Guillen, he's been popping off for years. But his next strike may be "out" so he needs to learn some restraint like most other public figures.

[GameUsedGR61]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

I am not sure where I read this, but apparently the Marlins were second to last in terms of attendance last year

An incident like this is definitely not going to help put people in the seats (in regards to a segment of the community)

[LastingsMilledge85]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

Too many whiners out there. I personally don't care what views anybody has or much of what they say. Someone will be offended no matter what anyone says.

Respecting something about someone does not mean that you are supportive of that person or activity. I can say that I respect how motorcycle gangs take care of their own business....but that doesn't condone what they do.

The problem is that what he said was bad for business. The Marlins need to make money, and he could not of said a worse statement to the demographic that is supposed to help fund this team. He said pro-Castro remarks in 2008, but nobody cared because how many Cuban-Americans support the Sox? Say that in Little Havana, and there is going to be a problem. Ozzie is an employee of the Miami Marlins, and (even though it's probably impossible for him) he needs to act in a professional manner. I can't wait for the next thing he says/does that embarrasses that sham of an organization.

[jppopma]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

Too many whiners out there. I personally don't care what views anybody has or much of what they say. Someone will be offended no matter what anyone says.

Respecting something about someone does not mean that you are supportive of that person or activity. I can say that I respect how motorcycle gangs take care of their own business....but that doesn't condone what they do.

[gameon]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

We White Sox fans have seen all too many of these Guillen disruptions in the past and they get very tiresome and annoying. Good luck with your new manager Miami fans. This is just one of many more to come. He said he will learn from this.......NOT!!!!

[Skizzick]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

I could not possibly agree less.

The "sports media" should focus on Baseball - and, I suppose, if there's time, and space on the page, those other (what Red Smith called) "back-and-forth sports" - period, and leave the politics to the political reporters, pundits, and assorted elected and appointed goobers of all races, creeds and ethnicities.

I don't care about any player's politics, sexuality, antecedants or personal history, whatsoever, unless it directly impacts how he hits, fields or pitches.

Well, you don't have to read it or watch it. ESPN has 230 shows dedicated to fantasy sports, and maybe they'll dedicate an hour every few days to E:60 or Outside the Lines. I think especially with the issue of Cuba, where baseball is the one thing both countries agree on, there should be a larger discussion. Hey man, it's what I study. I love this stuff.

[godwulf]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

The sports media should go to other Cuban baseball players and get their take on the situation and on Cuba/Castro today.

I could not possibly agree less.

The "sports media" should focus on Baseball - and, I suppose, if there's time, and space on the page, those other (what Red Smith called) "back-and-forth sports" - period, and leave the politics to the political reporters, pundits, and assorted elected and appointed goobers of all races, creeds and ethnicities.

I don't care about any player's politics, sexuality, antecedants or personal history, whatsoever, unless it directly impacts how he hits, fields or pitches.

[Skizzick]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

Good to know I'm not alone in that.

I came very, very, very close to obtaining one when I was down in Cuba. Through some connections, I met a former member of Castro's cabinet that had one and was willing to sell it, but at the last minute he backed out. I got to hold it though, which was pretty cool.

[Skizzick]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

The problem with this situation, like a lot of controversies in sports, is that it is the perfect opportunity for people to open up a larger conversation about the political and social nuances behind the controversies. But instead, people just want everybody to shut up, apologize, and move on. The sports media should go to other Cuban baseball players and get their take on the situation and on Cuba/Castro today. I think it would be interesting and it would get people interested in learning more.

[godwulf]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails).

Good to know I'm not alone in that.

[GameUsedGR61]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

I am a Cuban-American and I am not going to go into the politics of this situation. Personally, I do not like politics and hate debating it. I am all about free-speech and don't mind if he feels that way. To each his own, even though I vehemently disagree with him. One of the things I like about this country is that you have the right to express yourself .

In terms of a business stand-point, I think what Ozzie did was foolish especially since the stadium is in the Little Havana section of Miami. By saying those comments, you are actually alienating potential Cuban-American fans who may want to come to the game, especially those who never been to a game before. Plus, its also a slap in the face to the members of the Marlins organization who are Cuban: Gaby Sanchez, Cookie Rojas, Tony Perez and Felo Ramirez

Even though Ozzie has a right to say what he wants, fans have the right to voice their opinion and even boycott their games if they choose to. I am very curious to see how this turns out

[sox83cubs84]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

In Chicago, the media labelled such outbursts as "just Ozzie being Ozzie". I don't think that's gonna fill the bill here.

Dave Miedema

[David]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

I believe in free speech, but Ozzie isn't paid millions of dollars to offend his employers' customers. That would get you suspended to fired in almost any job.

The freedom of speech argument is a bit of a red herring, as he always has freedom of speech. He can repeat right now or tomorrow what he told Time today and he won't get arrested. If they fired him he'd still have the legal right to praise Castro until the day he dies. The first amendment doesn't say you can't get fired by telling the boss his wife is a hag and his kids are retards. Doesn't work that way. Of course there can be practical and occupational consequences for your words.

[LastingsMilledge85]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.

You can say what you want, but that doesn't mean it won't be subject to criticism and penalties.

[Skizzick]

Re: Ozzie Guillen in Trouble

I would LOVE to start a debate about this. Cuba is one of my favorite topics of discussion and I have studied it in great detail, and even lived in Havana for a semester.

First point: I saw nothing wrong with Guillen's comments, especially considering the man they come from. He said he respected Fidel Castro because people have tried to kill him and he's still here. He didn't say he loved Fidel Castro because he imprisons innocent people or because he is a dictator. I hoped he would have some cajones and stand by what he said, but it seems the Miami Cuban population can even silence Ozzie. If he was still the White Sox manager, or the manager of any other team outside of Miami, this would be a non-issue because people outside of the Miami metropolitan area are just not that enthused with Cuban issues.

Second point: Ozzie, a native Venezuelan, has time and again praised Hugo Chavez, even appearing on radio shows with him. MLB, the White Sox, and the media said nothing at the time. Meanwhile, Chavez is often (rightfully) compared to Castro for his human rights violations and his iron fist over his country

Third point: Does anybody else notice the double standard between Fidel Castro and Che Guevara? During the Cuban revolution and while he was in office Guevara committed a lot more atrocities than Fidel Castro, and even attempted armed rebellions in other countries as well. Yet, he is seen as a hero, adorning many t-shirts across the world while Fidel Castro, who is arguably a lot more moderate and reserved than a number of his companions, is branded as a villain and any mention of him in any sort of positive sense is met with scorn, hatred, fury, and calls for firing. Seriously, you could say something like, "Fidel Castro has good taste in cigars," and half of Miami would want you fired, tarred, and feathered. I'm not a fan of Fidel Castro myself (though his passion for baseball scores some points with me and a baseball signed by him is one of my holy grails). Still, you have to view the guy from an objective standpoint.

Fourth point (though slightly off-topic): The Miami Cuban American lobby has been one of the most detrimental lobbies for American foreign affairs. You have numerous politicians and experts on Cuba saying that open relations with Cuba would end the Castro regime quicker than the embargo and anti-Cuba rhetoric that exists today (and has for 50 years). If they had their way all the time, we would likely not have had any international baseball tournaments with both Cuban and US participation. Instead, the embargo has only propped the man up and kept him in power. If the US government didn't listen to the Cuban American lobby and engaged with the Cuban government, I contend that Fidel Castro would have been out of power decades ago.

Fifth point: THE FIRST FREAKIN' AMENDMENT! A guy can say what he wants to, as long as it's within the boundaries of his opinion.