Jeter Not Mvp ?

[sylbry]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

1) It is the 2006 MVP award. What Morneau or Jeter did in the past HAS NO MEANING on this year's voting.

2) Don't try to speak for everyone on the forum. They can speak for themselves if they wish.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

I like these non-memorabilia threads. They're kinda like the office Christmas party. You see where co-workers are coming from and just what they're thinking...
Jeter deserves the MVP, for the sole reason as I have never heard of this other guy. Don't shoot me...I'm just a collector!

[thome25.com]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

I cannot figure out how anybody would suggest Jeter held anything together this year, especially considering the time he and A-rod colided and Jeter gave a dirty look of disgust, walking away as the ball lay on the ground.. Not exactly what you are looking for out of your club-house leader... Pick the players up while they are down, don't pile on.... Jeter is a media darling. He is a great player but certainly receives more praise than somebody of the same skill set playing for a small market club... Gold glove? Not sure I agree with that one either... I could easily suggest Hafner had more value to his club than Jeter did... Look at the numbers between the 2 of them.

[cjw]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

Being a die-hard Jays fan, it is easy to dump on the Yankees. But I don't have to let my personal loyalties cloud my judgement in this case...because looking at the numbers and the way Morneau helped power the Twins through the tough Central division.....he takes the MVP in my book.

[JETEFAN]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

Being a die-hard Jays fan, it is easy to dump on the Yankees. But I don't have to let my personal loyalties cloud my judgement in this case...because looking at the numbers and the way Morneau helped power the Twins through the tough Central division.....he takes the MVP in my book.

Let's look at the numbers!!!

Jeter vs. Morneau
Jeter was 22 points better BA, 42 points better on base Pct. 58 points better with runners in scoring position, Jeter also had more Hits, Runs, Doubles and stolen bases than Morneau. For a guy hitting in the number 2 spot, these numbers are awsome!!!!

[eGameUsed]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

The numbers are actually irrelevant in my opinion. 22 points in BA results in 12 or 13 more hits in a year, over a course of 162 games. That is 0.08 more hits per game. 42 points in OBP is because there are 4 to 5 HOF caliber players batting before or after you, which results in a more cautious approach by opposing pitchers. 58 points with runners in scoring percentage. Again, more base runners ahead of you, that numbers goes up. The stats are important, but if you have more to work with, then you are going to succeed more often. Morneau was a team leader, young, and was on a team that was an "underdog." Because of this, I think the voters thought Jeter and Morneau had similar enough stats to make the stats a wash and statistically irrelevant for purposes of choosing.

The important part, and was obvious in the voting, was which player was the most valuable to their respective team to help that team succeed (and therefore make the playoffs). I don't see how any Yankee can ever win the MVP Award as long as there is a guy like Morneau that helps a team as much as he did.

I really don't care who wins the AL Award every year. My vote doesn't count, nor does anyone else on this forum, but as long as the Yankees are the highest payroll in the MLB, and until the Yankees get more votes that any other organization, people will always go with the unexpected star of the season. Jeter is expected to perform well every year. Just my unbiased opinion.

Why don't we talk about why Roy Oswalt didn't get at least 2nd place in the NL Cy Young Award balloting.

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

This takes me back to Cleveland's favorite son, Albert Belle. Say what you want about him (and we can say plenty), but the guy was an offensive beast of a player.

Remember back, he carried the team, back when Manny was an infant? They were just starting to get good, and he was by far the superstud of the team, and he carried them to victory practically by himself. But, and this may shock you, he was also a prize A-hole, and ticked the media off every chance he got. So the media gave the MVP to someone else (Juan Gone? I'm too lazy to research it.) They said that he didn't have the numbers to be MVP.

The very next year he put up a monster season (50 HR and 50 doubles is HUGE.) So what did the media do? Give the award to someone else, saying how the team could have won without him, how it's not an award for best offensive player, but the player that a team absolutely couldn't do without.

Personally, I think that monstorous numbers are great, but they don't make you most valuable.

Ken

[thome25.com]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

EarlyWynnfan, right on the money about Belle. Actually it was 1995 when he put up 50/50 and yet the award went to Mo in Boston. (Cleveland swept Boston in the palyoffs, I think Mo ans Jose went hitless in the series) There has not been a greater mishandling of the award since...

[allstarsplus]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

Snubbed Pujols says MVP should be on playoff team

Associated Press


SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic -- Albert Pujols thinks he was snubbed.

The St. Louis Cardinals' slugger is upset he lost out to Philadelphia's Ryan Howard for the National League MVP award, saying Wednesday the honor should go to someone on a playoff team.


"I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP," Pujols said in Spanish at a news conference organized by the Dominican Republic's sports ministry.
Pujols led the Cardinals to the NL Central title this year and their first World Series championship since 1982. Howard and the Phillies missed the playoffs -- though they won two more regular-season games than St. Louis.

The Dominican-born Pujols batted .331 with 49 home runs and 137 RBI, while Howard hit .313 with 58 homers and 149 RBI.

Howard got 20 first-place votes for MVP and 388 points in balloting by a panel of the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Pujols received 12 first-place votes and 347 points. Voting is conducted before the postseason.

Pujols, the 2005 NL MVP, said he has bigger dreams -- a spot in the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, N.Y. The BBWAA also votes for the Hall of Fame.

"It is still early, but it is a dream I have," Pujols said. "My hope is that in good time I will have sufficient numbers to get to Cooperstown."
Pujols praised several moves the Cardinals have made this offseason, including signing second baseman Adam Kennedy and pitcher Kip Wells. The slugger noted that his club had been hoping to land fellow Dominican star Alfonso Soriano, who instead agreed to a $136 million deal with the Chicago Cubs.

"I thought we were going to sign Soriano, but it wasn't possible. We also intended to trade for him during the season, but the Nationals wanted too much for him," Pujols said.

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press

[cjclong]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

With regrad to the MVP there are almost always differences of opinion. I thought Jeter deserved it this year for a number of the reasons already mentioned. If you look at Jeter's numbers in the World Series he 's been in they show he plays as well or better under pressure than he does during the course of a regular season. After all the times he's gotten big hits and made big plays when the playoffs or World Series were on the line to say he "chocked" in not getting the hits to win the batting title on the last day of the season is ridiculous. If not getting a hit, even in a key situation on an occasional basis, is chocking most ballplayers "choke" 65 to 70 percent of the time since few players hit much above .300 (7 outs in 10 at bats iis chocking?) Jeter helped keep the Yankees together when they had key players out with injuries, ARod was inconsistent most of the year and the pitching except for Wang and Rivera was often incosistent. He played well all year and helped keep the Yankees in the race at a time the could have fallen out. And if he and ARod aren't the gretest friends then neither Ruth or Gehrig could be considered an MVP or team leader because they had a time of mutual coolness. Finally, if a player has been a potential MVP for years I think it should count for something in considering the award when the MVP race is close and a newcomer like Morneau is involved unless the newcomer's statistics and play were so exceptional they clearly overshadow the longtime vlauable player. Morneau's weren't .

[sylbry]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

With regrad to the MVP there are almost always differences of opinion. I thought Jeter deserved it this year for a number of the reasons already mentioned. If you look at Jeter's numbers in the World Series he 's been in they show he plays as well or better under pressure than he does during the course of a regular season. After all the times he's gotten big hits and made big plays when the playoffs or World Series were on the line to say he "chocked" in not getting the hits to win the batting title on the last day of the season is ridiculous.

This is the 2006 MVP award. Not a lifetime acheivement award. Look at his numbers in the World Series? He hasn't been in a World Series since 2001. That would be highly irrelevant.

Jeter helped keep the Yankees together when they had key players out with injuries, ARod was inconsistent most of the year and the pitching except for Wang and Rivera was often incosistent. He played well all year and helped keep the Yankees in the race at a time the could have fallen out. And if he and ARod aren't the gretest friends then neither Ruth or Gehrig could be considered an MVP or team leader because they had a time of mutual coolness.

Yep, Jeter is the leader of the team. No doubt about it. Just like Morneau was the leader of the Twins. Ask any Twins player. Why should Jeter get extra credit for being the leader of the Yankees?

Don't kid yourself, the Yankees were not about to fall out of the playoff race. Their division wasn't nearly as competitive as the AL Central.

Finally, if a player has been a potential MVP for years I think it should count for something in considering the award when the MVP race is close and a newcomer like Morneau is involved unless the newcomer's statistics and play were so exceptional they clearly overshadow the longtime vlauable player. Morneau's weren't .

Yearly potential MVP players have their place, it is called the hall of fame.

[staindsox]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

sylbry...that was an absolutely perfect response.

[sylbry]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

I don't mean to diminish Jeter's season or career in any way. He had a great season and has had an even better career. Morneau would be lucky to have half the success Jeter has had.

However, in 2006 the writer's saw Morneau had an arguably better season and the greater effect on his teams ability to win. The only person Jeter, the Yankee organization, and Yankee fans have to blame for Jeter not winning the MVP is Jeter himself simply because he didn't do enough and left doubt in over half of the writer's heads as to who the most valuable ballplayer was in the AL.

Just don't say he got robbed. Jeter was a worthy candidate. In fact he was a deserving candidate, but so was Morneau. Being seen as a very close second most valuable player in the AL isn't so bad. They just don't give out a trophy for that.

[cjclong]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

Maybe I didn't articulate it well but my remarks about Jeter in the division series and world series weren't intended to be a reason why he should have been named MVP. They were a response to the accusation he "chocked" when he didn't get the hits to win the batting title the last day of the season. When a player like Jeter who has produced over the years in clutch situations makes an out it isn't because he chocked but because nobody bats 1.000 At sometime or other every player, no matter how great, makes the last out to end a game, whether its Musial, Mays or Mantle. That doesn't make them chockers, just human athletes. Regarding the MVP or an All Star vote I think if you have a close decision between a new comer amd a veteran who has produced for a number of years the tie ought to go to the veteran. That's regardles of what team he plays for or who he is. But that's just my opinion and obviously others may differ as is their right.

[sylbry]

Re: Jeter Not Mvp ?

In order to do what you are proposing you would need to invalidate voter's ballots. Morneau was the clear winner. No argument about it based on the ballots. However since Jeter was close, ballots for Morneau should be invalidated thus giving Jeter the win since he has been around longer and has accomplished more.

By doing that you would destroy the voting process (why vote because it may not count anyways.) That would be like saying the 2004 Ohio presidential vote count doesn't matter because the vote is close and Bush has been around longer (and arguably accomplished more.)

I understand where you are coming from, how can a player who has been so good for so long not win at least one MVP. Since every player starts with an even slate every year it is happening.

I got to say I don't feel bad for him. He is a sure bet hall of famer and has numerous World Series titles. Ask Morneau which he would rather have, a World Series ring or an MVP trophy. I think you know the answer.