2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

I absolutely appreciate American Memorabilia's stance here. It's great that they'll never offer one of these again, even though their authenticator says it's "game used"

It's refreshing that AMI is willing to override the authenticator.

I applaud everyone's efforts here which put all of this in motion.

Perhaps that might mean the end of auction houses saying "Well the authenticator said it's good, then it's good" when actual evidence is offered

Eric

[lund6771]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

I agree that it's great what AMI's stance on this is....but I think it's just a sugar coating because the real problem is Lampson, and as long as they continue to use him they will have many issues...they would be sooo much more respected if they got rid of that guy

VA's stance is absolutely dispicable

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

FYI- This ended (not counting the buyer's fee) at $2071.88

[EndzoneSports]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

FYI- This ended (not counting the buyer's fee) at $2071.88

... and without our ever having received a response to our e-mail of 4/9 to Steve Jensen re: his intent to dialog with Lou on this item.

Best regards,

[beantown]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

Hang on...here's another one!

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=707&Lot_No=19921

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

The Elway throwback which was listed and pulled off the auction block by AMI at the top of this thread is now available in Vintage Authentics.

Photos from the pulled AMI listing show the autograph and threads surrounding match the current Vintage Authentics listing.

Vintage Authentics

http://vintageauthentics.at.truition.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=92117034&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=92463744

AMI

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35956

Interesting to note that the pulled AMI listing is now headlined "ASK VICTOR Being Sold FOR BOB CASE for this 1994 John Elway Game-Worn, Signed Throwback Broncos Jersey"

Is Bob Case the same Bob Case that's a member of the 100% Authentic Team of authenticators that they use? If so, might that be conflict of interest?

I would ask those questions to the good people at AMI, but they stopped responding to my questions long ago.....

Dave O'Brien, you were incredibly helpful in getting this jersey pulled from the original auction

(see http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...53&postcount=9 )

Any chance you can find out if Bob Case was the consignor and is a member of the 100% Authentic team? Also, does AMI allow its authenticators to consign items?

Thank you
Eric

[lund6771]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

The Elway throwback which was listed and pulled off the auction block by AMI at the top of this thread is now available in Vintage Authentics.

Photos from the pulled AMI listing show the autograph and threads surrounding match the current Vintage Authentics listing.

Vintage Authentics

http://vintageauthentics.at.truition.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=92117034&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=92463744

AMI

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35956

Interesting to note that the pulled AMI listing is now headlined "ASK VICTOR Being Sold FOR BOB CASE for this 1994 John Elway Game-Worn, Signed Throwback Broncos Jersey"

Is Bob Case the same Bob Case that's a member of the 100% Authentic Team of authenticators that they use? If so, might that be conflict of interest?

I would ask those questions to the good people at AMI, but they stopped responding to my questions long ago.....

Dave O'Brien, you were incredibly helpful in getting this jersey pulled from the original auction

(see http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...53&postcount=9 )

Any chance you can find out if Bob Case was the consignor and is a member of the 100% Authentic team? Also, does AMI allow its authenticators to consign items?

Thank you
Eric

Eric...it is the same Bob Case...

from what I've heard, there are many top items in AMI's auctions that come from their authenticators....ie Case and Lampson

again, this is what I've heard from reliable people...sometimes the items actually sell and sometimes they are just for show to make it look like they have nice items in every auction....these guys are protected from their items selling for less than what they would get rid of them for...

[skipcareyisfat]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

When did Lifetime start making documentaries on "game used" jerseys? That's the sappiest auction I've ever seen.

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

American Memorabilia has taken down the information on the Elway that they pulled from auction. But don't worry, that information is still available here...

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:WpPieM9qAtoJ:www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp%3FAuction_ID%3D35956+%22bob+case%22+elway&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=safari

Dave O'Brien, I know you're very close with the people at American Memorabilia. Any chance you can get answers to the questions I posed before? I'm sure collectors would appreciate knowing if they allow their authenticators to consign items.

Thanks

[CollectGU]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

I haven't asked but I think that Bob can consign something as long as he doesn't authenticate it. What would be the problem there? I think this is done at many auction houses...

Regards,
Dave

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

How do we know who authenticates it? The authenticators are listed as the "100% Authentic team" and he's listed as a member of the team.

Also, on AMI's site, they describe the authentication process
"Standards and Criteria
Each item is examined and handled by our team of experts. First, we have our team sift out any lightly-used or game-issued jerseys. Second, the appropriate authenticator is consulted to examine the jerseys and/or equipment based on their expertise and knowledge in that particular sport. Third, the jersey or equipment must display evidence of acceptable use or have player/team provenance."

Then it says "100% Authentic opinion is not based on only one experts opinion, but rather is a compilation of information through various sources and experts."

How specifically do we know who looks at the items? I would assume then that more than one person puts his/her name on the COA.

If you're saying AMI does not allow consignors to authenticate their own items then that would remove a conflict of interest.

In response to your question- it's not that there's a problem, it's that valuable information about conflicts of interest or lack thereof should be shared with potential buyers.

One more question- why did AMI take down the Elway/Bob Case page i referred to?

Thanks in advance for your help
Eric

[lund6771]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

I haven't asked but I think that Bob can consign something as long as he doesn't authenticate it. What would be the problem there? I think this is done at many auction houses...

Regards,
Dave

Very interesting Dave...Can you tell us who the consignor is of this jersey that was in AMI's last auction?....you only need one guess...

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=41053

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

The title of the thread: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

I would think that most if not all experienced NFL collectors would know/understand the odds are obviously pretty good. The amount of "shock" by posters in this thread amazes me to be honest. As a Jets fan I know that there are many more "game worn" Joe Namath jerseys on the market than really is acceptable. Is this because they are fakes? Well I am sure a couple might be but for the most part any knowledgeable Jets/NFL collector understands the Jets made up many Namath jerseys in the locker room for the purposes of Joe or another Jets rep to give away (also a reason why so many have different attributes such as NOB directly on verso, etc...). It also happened when Lott and Boomer joined the Jets as well - you see many of thier pieces floating around. It doesn't suprise me at all to you see multiple Elway throwbacks. Determining which one(s) were game used might be tough considering the limited games used so any buyer would have to really bear down and do some serious research...why leave it to or depend on Lampson or any other authenticator? It stands to reason that many of the older more popular players had extra jerseys made up (in the locker room) for the purpose of meeting demand for giving them away.

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

People's shock in this thread was over two jerseys listed as "game used" the style of which was only worn in one game- the jerseys were two different sizes in two different auction houses simultaneously and authenticated by the same person- Lou Lampson.

American Memorabilia did the right thing and took theirs down because of the evidence presented to them.

Lampson has again put his name on the COA of that jersey pulled from AMI and it's now being offered as "game used" in Vintage Authentics. I emailed Steve at Vintage Authentics and will let people know when I hear back.
Eric

[mvandor]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

People's shock in this thread was over two jerseys listed as "game used" the style of which was only worn in one game- the jerseys were two different sizes in two different auction houses simultaneously and authenticated by the same person- Lou Lampson.

American Memorabilia did the right thing and took theirs down because of the evidence presented to them.

Lampson has again put his name on the COA of that jersey pulled from AMI and it's now being offered as "game used" in Vintage Authentics. I emailed Steve at Vintage Authentics and will let people know when I hear back.
Eric

You neglected to add that the actual Elway jersey worn in that ONE game that this style was worn is in Canton in the HOF, thus unless he changed at halftime, not a single one on the market was "game used".