1994 Bills Throwback Question

[Samets]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

Forgot to add...

Bears also wore special style pants in gold! The team still has all of them and I've been trying to get a pair for my jerseys...

[Samets]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

Mark,

Excellent post as always. This is what's great about this forum, we can all come together and share our knowledge.

As always, I can only speak for the Chicago Bears game used jerseys, so here's some info I wanted to share...

Chicago Bears must have been one of the more creative teams for the 1994 season as far as the throwbacks go... The team sold t-shirts with the throwback design, low, mid and high grade retail jerseys which ranged from screen printed numbers and going all the way to nice tackle twill sewn numbers. You could also walk into the team store and purchase a team issued jersey that looked 100% correct except some minor differences. Numbers and the name plate were created and applied at the store and for some reason they used different elements. You were literally purchasing a correctly tagged 1994 throwback with both tags, elastic sides and cuffed sleeves!!! I'm not sure what the price was but this was the ultimate level and priced accordingly I'm sure. See the last attachment for different styles sold. You can see in one of the pictures that high end store model butler had the name sewn directly on the back but when stepping up to the pro shop model, you got the name plate. As you can imagine, there are multiples of star players floating around in multiple sizes... I almost bought kickers jersey thinking it was the real deal but was proven wrong right on this forum...

I've been collecting Bears jerseys for a few years now and only was able to add a gamer in 2015 and it was not of a star player. Tory Epps (DT) only played one game in the jersey before being traded. It does exhibit all the traits of a real gamer. The 2nd throwback I purchased the night my 2nd child was born in 2016. This one is of a more famous player and it came directly from players family. It is also photomatched and shows use (all 3 games) with team repairs.

I have not seen photos of another game used 1994 Bears gamer before or since. People claim to have one and when pressed for photos, they flake out or are sitting on a nice team issued/pro shop model.

Bears gave the throwbacks to the players at the conclusion of the season.

Here's some eye candy of the two that I own:

[G1X]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

I am not a Bills collector and don't really have a whole lot of knowledge in general about their jerseys. With regards to the 1994 throwback jerseys, the only teams that I can speak clearly about are Atlanta, San Diego, New York Giants, San Francisco, and Detroit.

ATLANTA - I had a huge Falcons collection at one point before liquidating most of it a few years ago. Back in the spring of 1995, I was invited to visit the equipment room. I asked about the 1994 throwbacks, and the equipment manager told me that they were given to the players. The Falcons played the Chargers in the Hall of Fame game that summer, and both teams wore their throwbacks (Falcons wore red, the Chargers wore white).

Many years later, I obtained a red throwback jersey of an offensive lineman (#76-Zeno) who played in that game but was cut before the regular season. I still have that jersey in my collection. Other than the red throwback of running back Erric Pegram (#33) that has been on eBay for an eternity, I have never seen another Falcons throwback in the hobby other than a few team-issued white Jeff George jerseys. I had a white George at one point, but I knew it wasn't game worn as the end of the sleeves did not match the one he wore at Washington (the only game where they wore the white throwbacks). This leads me to the assumption that the Falcons probably had some extras made up for charity purposes. Interestingly, when I was on my visit in the locker room, I was shown a rack of white 1995 jerseys for the upcoming season. There was quite a few Jeff George jerseys on the rack.

SAN DIEGO - A few of San Diego's jerseys ended up with Football Heaven which was a game-used helmet and jersey dealer in the 1990s and 2000s. He mainly specialized in helmets, and he had a connection with the Chargers to obtain helmets and jerseys. I ended up with a white throwback of defensive back Darrien Gordon (#21) that I no longer have in my collection. Other than the ones that Football Heaven obtained, I have not seen any in the hobby other than the many Junior Seau jerseys and a few Natrone Means back in the day when he was a star (similar to all of the Brett Favre Packers and John Elway Broncos throwbacks floating around out there.)

NEW YORK GIANTS - A number of these got out into the hobby. They are fairly easy to find as I currently have 5 in my collection.

SAN FRANCISCO 49ers - A company called Man of Steal had a deal with the 49ers and made these available to collectors. (Others in this Forum can probably provide more information on this than me.) I went to the Super Bowl in Miami where the 49ers trounced the Chargers. There was a memorabilia show that weekend in conjunction with the game, and Man of Steal was set up at the show with racks of 49ers throwback jerseys. I never purchased one from them, but I later ended up with a few over the years (both colors) but they have long since departed from my collection.

DETROIT LIONS - The Lions jerseys were auctioned off BEFORE the Monday Night Game where they wore the jerseys for the first time. I believe that it was Jim Hawkins, a major memorabilia dealer in that era who had also been a sport writer covering the Tigers for the Detroit Free Pres, who ran that auction. It was kind of a strange way to conduct an auction, especially not knowing who would be dressed out for the game. Whoever won the Anthony Carter jersey (big star at the time) had the misfortune of ending up with a team-issued jersey as Carter was injured and did not play in the game. The Lions ended up suiting up in throwbacks later in the season (maybe on Thanksgiving - can't remember for sure) and it was always my understanding that they had to obtain a new set since the first set had been auctioned off. The Lions had team sales several times back in those days, and my understanding is that some of the throwbacks ended up in those sales. Mabe a Lions collector or someone from Detroit can chime in with the facts as I am working on fuzzy memories and hearsay at this point. I had a nice throwback of #83-Aubrey Mathews that I really liked but is long gone from my hands.

Other 1994 throwbacks I've had over the years include a red Chiefs, white Saints, and a white Jets. The Chiefs jersey is especially interesting. Wayne Otto of Pro-Am Sports made a huge bulk buy from the Chiefs around 10 years ago. In that batch was some throwback jerseys. I am not sure if Wayne was attuned to this as the throwbacks were only slightly different than the style worn in 1994 (throwbacks did not have the sleeve stripes/cuffs).

This was probably way more information than most of you care to know. If you got this far, see below for photos of a few of the throwbacks I've owned over the years (Falcons, 49ers, Giants, Saints, and Chiefs).

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

PLEASE SELL ME YOUR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS!

[genius]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

Steelers 1994 throwbacks are extremely rare, have only seen two game worn. Have seen five or six backups/extras though. I did hear the players got both. Rod Woodson's gamer sold at auction if I'm not mistaken and his backup was at one time displayed in the Hall of Fame.

[gobills123]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

My understanding is that many teams let their players keep their throwback jerseys from 1994 and being so long ago I doubt many would have looked at them as investment opportunities. Some likely have them displayed but my guess would also be that many would either be in storage somewhere or were discarded long ago. You might eventually see them start trickling out in player consignments to auction houses.

That would make sense! Thanks for the thoughts. Its a shame other teams dont do what the Pats do. I know many 96-01 Bills jerseys are in tubs in storage that the a person associated with their alumni sells to make a few $$ here and there but I have no idea where the earlier ones are. They cant think very much of them though as 'something' was cleaned out last month and as a result a thrift store down the st (who seems to also get the dump when a coach or staff leaves) ended up with a bunch from the 80s ( had since been turned into practice jerseys so by no means the cream of the crop).

That said, I'm curious if each player was issued a gamer and a backup. There are multiple Kellys but the blue Fina I once owned was very clean and I had heard he had his in his collection. I get making multiples of a star player, but with respect to Fina... I cant see them running the presses with #70s. Interesting and probably correct reasoning why they dont tend to pop up.
Anyone noticed other teams whos throwbacks are incredibly hard to obtain?

[genius]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

My understanding is that many teams let their players keep their throwback jerseys from 1994 and being so long ago I doubt many would have looked at them as investment opportunities. Some likely have them displayed but my guess would also be that many would either be in storage somewhere or were discarded long ago. You might eventually see them start trickling out in player consignments to auction houses.

[gobills123]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

Gotcha lol!!!
Ya, things looked pretty intense. Not to start anything, but its scary how much incorrect Bills info there is on this site. When 1st starting 7 or 8 years ago I used the few threads where you guys got into it pretty religiously in regard to basing rules for purchases etc. Through all the nonsense, there was some good info that served as a good starting point. Over the years there have been many times I've encountered something that was just incorrect though. From the great recycling debate to this, to even finding pics of a 1987 game where a few players actually wore the overlapping style of the Giants. I'd have bet $$ Bills game collars from that era all came to a V rather than overlap. Not the case.

Anywho, any idea as to why some teams are pretty easy to obtain throwbacks for? Conversely, why are some so hard? He may very well be a member here, but I ran into a collector whos long game was obtaining a home and away from each team from the 94 throwbacks. The Bills was the 1 team he couldnt seem to find. As i mentioned, I've only ever owned 3 and none were obtained through traditional channels, but rather someone who was hooked up from the locker room.

Which, brings me full circle to wondering if these Kellys were just made in house with extras to give people or if they made XX amount of these for various purposes. I've never run into anyone who knows sadly, so it may remain a mystery forever

[G1X]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

Mark, you were quite active in the 1st incarnation of this thread.
Have you since learned anything about this 94 throwbacks between now & then?
Have you seen anything similar with other teams?
Thanks for the help and time!

I did not pursue this issue any further to save my sanity

In all seriousness, I never received the video of the game, so my interest died on the vine at that point.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR WORLD FOOTBALL LEAGUE UNIFORMS

[gobills123]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

Mark, you were quite active in the 1st incarnation of this thread.
Have you since learned anything about this 94 throwbacks between now & then?
Have you seen anything similar with other teams?
Thanks for the help and time!

[gobills123]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

[gobills123]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

I've used this thread a few times over the years are reference. Parts are very helpful. I wish I was aware of the site over the years as there are some serious information issues - but whats in the past is in the past and we can leave it be. Just worth mentioning if someone else come along looking at this for reference.

What is odd to me is other teams seem pretty easy to acquire a 94 throwback.
The Bills on the other hand, SUPER tough. I've only ever come across a blue fina, white delvin ( incomplete ) and have found a picture of a white Fina that sold at auction. I wonder why these are so difficult to acquire? Odd. Did other teams offer them at retail? The Bills never sold them in the Bills store, or had a 'retail' authentic jersey like their normal white/blue champion did. It seems that any that got out there were still coming from someone one the equpt staff or someone of the sort.

The Fina/Devlin are all cuffed. That picture of the Reich makes it look as though the 2nd stripe is hemmed - tucked and fastened on the inside - BUT if I were to guess I'd guess they were manufactured with 1 stripe, OR because its SO LONG, the 2nd stripe was sewn under. Either way the previous owner of this Kelly said it came from a 'connect' in the locker room. The Fina came from CL and the seller said his father had a connect with the locker room as well. Both came from CL, but were 2 totally different people. Seems there were many 'connects' back then.

Where things get weird for me is this.... I'm not aware of these being sold at retail. I've seen a black box that had a Bills 35th logo on the front that was speculated might have contained a jersey.

Kelly generally wore size 42, but as he got older his size (94-96) jumped to a 44.

Here is what I think is weird. Kelly wore this jersey and to my understanding the jersey he ACTUALLY wore isnt in a collection. I've seen 1 blue in a collection thats autographed and framed.... that is a double stripe. There is one displayed in the HOF in Canton that claims to be 'game worn'.... that has a double stripe. I'd guess neither of those jerseys are the one pictured with a COA earlier in this thread - that is double striped.

Now, with white - the one Kelly wore in the game was single striped. Same idea as the Blue. Personally, I've only ever come across/seen the one that I acquired the other day and a picture on the back of a 2001 Donruss Throwback Threads card (claiming it was game worn etc and obviously wasnt) and this was double striped as well.

Heres the weird part IMO... Bills jerseys from 91-96 that are actually legit from the locker room equpt staff SHOULD and WILL have a number on the inside 100% polyester tag. This is done a certian way and its easy to tell what someone has tried to fake and whats legit. Its some sort of inventory that doesnt directly correspond with the game it was used in other than a low # will be easier to find earlier in the year.

This white Kelly, that the previous owner had for 20+ years framed is a double striped SIZE 46 and the inside tag says #16 in the correct fashion.

Now, I knew going into this that this wasnt the 'hero' jersey so to speak and it wasnt what was worn. I dont care because frankly as a Kelly collector I try and get as many 'feelers' out there as I can and after acquiring the Gamblers one - a blue or white throwback became my pipe dream and white whale/ holy grail. Used or unused, a tough get and not one I thought I'd EVER own.

That #16 though... it got me thinking.
Whats more likely? The Bills made a limited edition jersey that was made with double stripes to differentiate that was then autographed and sold - say 35? (pick a number, just using that in case that black box with the 35 logo was what they were sold in - think the same type of box you see the top of the line Nike football gloves sold it) OR when everything was done they had a couple blanks and had them made up in house as KELLY (with no regard to size, but at least getting the cut right - unlike some charity jerseys from this period where they used a cuffed micromesh blank for a KELLY).

That #16 is the curious part.
I feel like even if it was a limited edition thing I'd have seen more of these over the years rather than just the 5 (blue/white combined) not counting the actual gamers. But as these games took place in weeks 3 and 4, its a weird # for sure.

I guess it also depends the extend of the abilities the Bills had to number on site. I know back in the day blanks were shipped and a local sports store would apply numbers and letters/plates - but since these all the the Champion font - maybe the plates were all that was done in house (which makes sense because preseason and bubble players always had the old sand knit font nameplates rather than the Champion.

[gobills123]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

back from the dead. Was a good read!!!

This has turned into my new grail. Good to know there are a 'few' out there... even if they do have the wrong sleeves....

[mchmaj]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

woodfrey got the jersey from GF,and someone sent it to GF . what i am trying to say that the jersey is originally from a guy in florida, sidenotes, he sold more than 1 kelly throwback jerseys....theres other blank kelly on back only without any numbers sold awhile ago on EBAY so whats ODD of 2 bills throwback kelly jersey with error TWO stripes on the sleeves....

The bills throwback jerseys have only one stripe sleeves with TWO STYLES that has one with screened on/painted stripes on the into loose/open sleeves and other one is the tighting band with dye colors of white red white that sewn attached to the sleeves.

the points you should look at, why would BILLS order the cloth tighting bands on the throwback jerseys ? in the past the bills worn screened/painted stripes on the sleeves, IF any players wanted to tighting their sleeves, THE BILLS reopened the screened/painted stripes on the sleeves, and added the elastic bands inside the sleeves to tight it up. BILLS practiced that for awhile

my point of that, what i think that YOU STILL THINK bills throwback jerseys have two stripes on the sleeves, am i correct ? okay, why would BILLS ordered the cloth elastic bands IF the sleeves have two stripes, the BILLS would have cut the sleeves off and reopen the sleeves and add the elastic band inside and showed only one stripe sleeves.

that what bills praticed for long time, you can look at 1990 bills team, they worn two stripes on sleeves. for example kelly cut off his sleeves to be loose sleeves and it was left only one stripe on the sleeves, some other cut off and tighting it up with elastic bands but into one stripe sleeves or two sleeves. some players left two stripes open/loose sleeves. I CAN SEE THAT THEY HAVE TAILORING SLEEVES. for the 1994 bills pictures i have provided doesnt show any tailoring sleeves.

I am historian so i study pictures and research them very well. i have primary and secondary sources that provide back up information to the jerseys i am collecting...

I am not sure if i was correct, GF got issues with their authenting the jerseys in the past ?? seem someone didnt do their homework ?

to be clear here, kelly jersey woodfrey is AUTHENTIC JERSEY, its not game nor issued jersey.
thank you

[mvandor]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

HELP YOURSELF !
you refuse to accept that i was right after all
way to go
marcus

M, whatever your knowledge of Bills unis is, and it may be very substantial, it doesn't alter the fact that your people skills could use some work, my friend. Doesn't help you or the board population if you're abrasive and alienate others in making your points.

JMHO.

[G1X]

Re: 1994 Bills Throwback Question

Marcus,

My intent is not to refuse to accept what you have said. I think that I have made myself painfully clear, and anyone reading my numerous, exhaustive posts, clearly understands my point. As I said in my last post, I tend to trust what you are saying as the Bills are your team

If you are taking all of this personally, my apologies as that is not my intent. Feel free to contact me offline if you continue have an issue as I don't think we are answering my question about the video by going around and around on the same issues.

I am hoping that the video proves beyond any further doubt that you are absolutely right, because it seems to be very important to you to be right.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net