Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

[camarokids]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Posada did it on his own talent

Plus Posada pees on his hands......

[Birdbats]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

I think the McGwire thing was covered well by others -- there's still demand because he still has fans from his years in St. Louis... and supply of legit, signed bats is very thin. Lots of pilfered bats with phony use, but not many real gamers with real use.

The flip side of Mac is Ozzie Smith. His bats typically sell for less than $500, and I actually saw a Cooper gamer of his sell for less than $200. You'd think he'd be worth more, but there's more supply than demand. His bats are like Pete Rose autographs -- if a collector ever wanted one, he/she probably has one.

I think the most undervalued bat remains Stan Musial. His gamers sell for a fraction of those used by Williams, DiMaggio and Mantle. If Stan had played in New York, he'd have a borough named after him. OK, maybe not a borough, but you get the idea.

Overvalued? I love him, but I don't get the price of Cal Ripken gamers. They don't seem to be scarce. Brett and Mattingly also are on my list, even though they're two of my favorite players.

[xpress34]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

New Rookies on the scene - well technically it is a different era now of collecting and with game used hobby becoming so commercialized. You have ten times the amount now of collectors. So why not raise the price???? There will be someone out there to pay it. Now with the rookies every one is looking for the next phenom player and that there values are going to skyrocket once they become that player.
Items like mantle, Ruth, Ted Williams, Roberto Clemente game used items were taken for granted and being thrown out because no one knew that this would turn into an actual hobby.
Another mans trash is another mans fotune. - So we all learn that years later.

So with the rookies of today everyone is trying to cash in now on that hoping it will be one day there fortune.

Suave -

You hit the Nail on the Head - Look at 'Sid the Kid' Crosby in the NHL... he was so hyped (and he hasn't disappointed), but he and his Dad hatched a GREAT Rookie plan - NEW jersey EVERY game - and he and his Dad kept EVERY Jersey and Every stick and started their own 'memorabilia' business...

A lot of rookies and their agents are cashing in...

- Chris

[kingjammy24]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Of course, this thread requires one to define the terms "underpriced" and "overpriced". By one view, there might not be such a thing as under or over priced.... Is a Rolls Royce overpriced at over $100K just because I might not spend that money for the car, even if I was able to?

quick comment to answer this question: i meant underpriced and overpriced relative to other players of equal stats. eg: (hypothetical) paying $1000 for a brett bat but only $500 for a yount. my entire point was to compare similar players with wildely disparate prices. to keep with your rolls royce example, it has nothing to do with what you might spend or are able to spend. a rolls royce, at a $100k, would be overpriced IF you could buy a similarly equipped bentley at $50k. the two cars would be extremely similar in every aspect, including prestige, except for the price which would make it an oddity. this is my entire point.

rudy.

[xpress34]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

overpriced: japanese ball players. supply and demand. more demand from international collectors who are willing to pay whatever it takes.

I have to agree with that - and not just GU items... cards and autos as well...

I am working a GU and AU card set from Fleer from 2004... the most scarce AUTO (and yet to surface) is a Ted Williams 1/1. Ironically if it surfaced, I could probably obtain it cheaper than the Hideo Nomo AUTO (25 copies) from the same set... I've seen 4 of the Nomo's surface over the years on eBay and everyone of them SOLD to Japanese buyers for OVER $800 each!!!

- Chris

[emann]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

I don't want to derail the thread on this, but you missed my point, read it again... I didn't compare Tek to Posada. Posada is easily better. That Pudge is better than Posada was my point. C'mon, seriously- compare those numbers. 2X top ten for MVP for Posada? What does that get him? Also, I did agree that Pudge is probably going to be ruined w/ the steroid use (let's assume he took them). He'll end up in the same boat as Palmerio, Sosa, etc.

Another to add to overpriced:
Ryan Howard & Chase Utley. I like both of them, but I've seen $800 Howard bats. WAY too high right now compared to other available players.

[suave1477]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

I'll give you the numbers- it is possible that Posada will pass Pudge on some of the numbers. But remember, they are the exact same age and Pudge should have a few more years in him as well. Granted, I think the steroid issue you mention might ruin him as it has the others but for now...

Pudge: 14X All Star, 13X Gold Glove and MVP winner at 37... 2,600+ hits
Posada: 5X All Star, 5X Gold Glove at 37... 1500? hits

I still think Posada means little to anyone who isn't a Yankee fan. He's like Varitek (or even Ortiz), I still think he'd be even less known if he was out of the major market.

I'm also a Sox fan (who is trying to be fair- they'd revoke my Red Sox Nation card for dissing Ortiz), so maybe that's it.

Again you still failed to realize Pudge put up a lot of those numbers due to the roids.
Posada did it on his own talent

Pudge should have a few years in him as well??? No one wants him, hge hasn't signed anywhere.

Not to mention 2 of Posadas 14 seasons he barley played. which is basically like putting up 12 seasons against 18

You say no one would know who Posada was, if he was on another team is uuuuuum completely the opposite.
Posada is considered to be one of the most underated players due to being on the team he is on, the whole lineup is consisted of superstars.
Put Posada on any other team and he would be a SuperStar.

I understand your mad because your a Red Sox fan and have had Varitek as a catcher lol lol

But comparing Posada to Damon, Varitek, Cano, Lowell????? Are you serious???

Posada
5 x All Star
2 x Voted top ten MVP
4 x WS Champ
5 x Silver Slugger

Varitek
3 x All Star
1 Silver Slugger
2 x WS Champ

[emann]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Where were you when I sold these? There's actually a really nice Baines on Ebay right now. It's signed really well and has a Make Offer type bid.

Dunno, I've been posting in the Item Wanted section for months... Looking for nice 80's star bats (Raines, Dawson, Parker, etc). Search for the post and feel free to drop me a note...

[emann]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

I agree with everything you said except in your post except for this line with mentioning Posada

He is no Arod, I agree, but I do believe he is clearly above marginal especially in comparison to other players of his position.

You mentioned Pudge as a possible HOF
Well compare Posada to Pudge - Posadas numbers are right behind Pudge.
With some of Posadas numbers are better then Pudge's
Now don't forget Pudge has been doing it for 18 seasons while Posada has been around for 14.
So Posada is on pace to match most of Pudges numbers if not beat them.

Now think about this alot of Pudges numbers were due to roids. So take away some of his numbers because of the roids and where does that put Posadas numbers - way passed Pudge!!

Marginal I think not lol lol

I'll give you the numbers- it is possible that Posada will pass Pudge on some of the numbers. But remember, they are the exact same age and Pudge should have a few more years in him as well. Granted, I think the steroid issue you mention might ruin him as it has the others but for now...

Pudge: 14X All Star, 13X Gold Glove and MVP winner at 37... 2,600+ hits
Posada: 5X All Star, 5X Gold Glove at 37... 1500? hits

I still think Posada means little to anyone who isn't a Yankee fan. He's like Varitek (or even Ortiz), I still think he'd be even less known if he was out of the major market.

I'm also a Sox fan (who is trying to be fair- they'd revoke my Red Sox Nation card for dissing Ortiz), so maybe that's it.

[Yankwood]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Yankwood-
Hope it's a joke on the Baines bats. He's actually on my want list... I'll take him or Raines off your hands.

I agree Brett is overpriced. Same on Mattingly...

Where were you when I sold these? There's actually a really nice Baines on Ebay right now. It's signed really well and has a Make Offer type bid.

[Vintagedeputy]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Defintions:

Underpriced - what I own and can't afford to sell

Overpriced - what I want and can't afford to buy

[suave1477]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Good thread.


3) Relatively marginal players whose value is based on being on the Yankees or Red Sox: Cano, Damon, Posada, Varitek, Lowell, etc.
.

I agree with everything you said except in your post except for this line with mentioning Posada

He is no Arod, I agree, but I do believe he is clearly above marginal especially in comparison to other players of his position.

You mentioned Pudge as a possible HOF
Well compare Posada to Pudge - Posadas numbers are right behind Pudge.
With some of Posadas numbers are better then Pudge's
Now don't forget Pudge has been doing it for 18 seasons while Posada has been around for 14.
So Posada is on pace to match most of Pudges numbers if not beat them.

Now think about this alot of Pudges numbers were due to roids. So take away some of his numbers because of the roids and where does that put Posadas numbers - way passed Pudge!!

Marginal I think not lol lol

[suave1477]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

for the most part, prices seem tied to player stats. beyond that, scarcity also plays a role. that said, there are a few players whose items have always struck me as notably overpriced and others as underpriced without any rhyme or reason. what players do you feel are inexplicably, oddly overpriced and/or underpriced? my list:

overpriced
----------

1) bo jackson. a solid KC Royals game-used jersey would fetch around $2k (even more if there's provenance). $2k+ for a guy who had a total of 4 good seasons and racked up these completely mediocre career stats:
141 career HRs
598 career hits
.250 career BA
never a single season with more than 32 HRs and 1 all-star game. his stats are on par with ron kittle and i don't see ron kittle jerseys going for $2k+. no doubt bo was very exciting but it was for a very, very brief amount of time.

2) mark mcgwire. i recently read about solid bats of his going for upwards of $2k. i imagine jerseys would be around $4k? what would prices be if he hadn't, you know, juiced it his entire career? $5k bats? the steroid fiasco decimated prices for canseco, sosa, and clemens items. it also deeply affected bonds' items. at least bonds racked up some impressive stats cleanly before he started juicing it in the latter half of his career. if canseco is to be believed, and he's been right on the money so far, mcgwire began juicing it early on in oakland. one big juiced career and his bats are still upwards of $2k? why did canseco and sosa take such a massive hit from it and not mcgwire? canseco bats can be had for peanuts. sosa's got more career HRs than mcgwire.

3) any rookie who's had a 1-2 yrs so far. eg: pedroia. jtbats is currently selling an ellsbury for $499. sure ellsbury's 2008 season with a thundering 9 HRs and a couldn't-quite-get-to-300 .280 BA is astounding
and has probably been replicated by only 8000 other major leaguers, but it makes me wonder why jtbats is charging much less for bats of frank thomas, gary sheffield, jim thome, etc.

underpriced
-----------

1) rickey henderson. one of the greatest ballplayers of all time, first ballot HOFer, over 3000 hits, holds the SB record, and yet his bats seem to go for around $500. compare that to ripken's bats that often go well over $1k.

2) frank thomas. thomas bats go for 1/3 to 1/2 of griffey bats. what is the big disparity between the two? neither have ever been implicated in the steroids mess. thomas has a clean 521 HRs and griffey has 611, but thomas has a .301 career BA compared to griffey's .288. sure griffey was a great outfielder for a while. i'm not knocking junior but was he really twice or three times the player thomas was? as for supply, griffey was a bat factory for his entire career, pumping stuff out to mill creek and coast to coast. certainly no scarcity for his bats. the price of thomas bats seem to be on par with sosa bats which is really confusing considering thomas' HRs are clean and sosas' aren't.

what other pricing oddities are out there?

rudy.

KingJammy I agree with what your saying but at the same time I think your missing a little of the point which you answered your own question
Supply and Demand

Demand plays parts in different ways not just because of stats alone.

Ill explain, on your examples

First of all Fan Favorites plays a part in all the names you mentioned

1) Bo Jackson - no not the greatest player but the fact he was pretty good in 2 sports. Makes him a Fan Favorite because you do not find too many 2 sport players good at both, also rarity of his items. You just don't see that many. (Many that are real).
So when one comes along, put both reasons together = high premium

2) Mark McGwire - was a fan favorite before the whole roid thing ruined him. First player to break (Artificially) Mari's record in almost 40 years. Did it as a Cardinal. Same last team Maris ended up with.
And again extremely rare (real McGwire bats and Jerseys)
Again when one comes along = High premium
(Now with the names you mentioned) Palmeiro Sosa Canseco - there is still a desrire for there items but there items are flooded on the market. Takes away from the demand when the supply is plentiful.

3) New Rookies on the scene - well technically it is a different era now of collecting and with game used hobby becoming so commercialized. You have ten times the amount now of collectors. So why not raise the price???? There will be someone out there to pay it. Now with the rookies every one is looking for the next phenom player and that there values are going to skyrocket once they become that player.
Items like mantle, Ruth, Ted Williams, Roberto Clemente game used items were taken for granted and being thrown out because no one knew that this would turn into an actual hobby.
Another mans trash is another mans fotune. - So we all learn that years later.

So with the rookies of today everyone is trying to cash in now on that hoping it will be one day there fortune.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Rickey henderson - as great as he is and stolen base king, people have always favored interest in the almighty HOME RUN. Its more exciting to watch someone hit a ball out of a stadium then just another fast runner.
Not to mention the almight dollar signs Rickey saw by flodding the market with his own equipment

2) Frank Thomas - no question great hitter but in comparison to Griffey Jr. well the home run record speaks for that. To be apart of the 500 home run club in an era that seems like everyone else is becoming apart of the club, isn;t that exciting any more. Compared to being a part of the 600 Home Run club which most if hardly any ever last long enough in baseball to get there. Griffey will also be of moe desire!!

Yes Grifffey did pimp out his game used stuff. But Thomas isn;t far behind.
He jumped on the bandwagon and pimped out his own stuff.

I remember a year or 2 ago Thomas gave/sold to ESM like 10 home run bats and 20 game used bats.

The Game Used Hobby is turning into a business just like any other Hobby!!


These are just my opinion!!

[emann]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Yankwood-
Hope it's a joke on the Baines bats. He's actually on my want list... I'll take him or Raines off your hands.

I agree Brett is overpriced. Same on Mattingly...

[metsmetsmets]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Of course, this thread requires one to define the terms "underpriced" and "overpriced". By one view, there might not be such a thing as under or over priced.

If a buyer is willing to, and has to pay $2,000.00 for a particular baseball bat because the next highest bid came in at $1,990.00, then that bat, at that precise moment in time, is worth $2,000.00. By that view, it would make no difference that some others might be unwilling, or unable to pay the $2K.

Is a Rolls Royce overpriced at over $100K just because I might not spend that money for the car, even if I was able to?