Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

You know........Another VERY important thing about McGwire......

He didn't "hang on" to the game, sucking out the last few years he could to puff up his career stats. He quit at 38, turning down a huge contract and walking away from the game because he said his "body had had enough." That unselfish act made way for Pujols.

I think that left yet another positive in the minds of fans about the guy. That alone proved that he wasn't in it for the money, or the fame. He played the game because he enjoyed it, loved it, and he did give us all one HELL of a show.

As I mentioned in another prior thread, I truly believe that if he came out and told us all.......if he came clean about his use..........He would be forgiven with open arms (with some initial backlash) and, eventually, be elected to the Hall.

[bigtruck260]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

but when did collectors ever actually wait for proof before voting with their wallets? look at clemens and sosa. no proof on those two and their items have plummeted. i remember when sosa bats were 4 figures. mac's bats have stayed up there in terms of price and sosa's did a race to the bottom. i think even mcgwire collectors feel he juiced it but just don't care. like you said, they remember being entertained for a number of years and that's apparently all that really matters. i think you're right about nostalgia which amounts to popularity. ultimately, mcgwire's fans stuck by him and sosas' didn't. not sure why. same thing driving bo jackson prices; nostalgia. everyone remembers the "bo knows" commercials and how entertaining the whole bo campaign was. 20 yrs later, apparently bo knows long-term value.

rudy.

I was reading on CNN/SI the other day about how 'smart" Mac was for not implicating himself in the steroid scandal. This way, if it ever comes out as fact - he can't say he lied the way Clemens did. Lying on top of cheating is sinking lower than low. The public can forgive mistakes on some levels (NOT murder O.J.) but if you lie to them repeatedly, you just come off as a jerk - much the way A-Rod is looking right about now.

Personally, I believe that Mac juiced at some point. Maybe not his whole career - but certainly at some point when he was injured. I also think he worked very hard at his game...the folks in STL tend to treat baseball players like royalty. With Mac, many of them turned tail and ran ---but a few die hard collectors here drive the market up every time. The logic is (and I've bid before)...'Hey - there is a Mac bat on eBay that looks legit - Jeff Scott says it looks good...and it's only at $400 with a day left to go...I'll place a $600 (enter higher price) bid and see what happens.

There are different levels of disposable income, so there will be different limits. Logic in collecting tells you that even at $1200, a legit 1998 Mac bat is a deal. When you get to $1200 - why not go $1500? If you really want it, that is. I've never taken that plunge - but I will someday if I have to. I bet every person who has a bat of Mac's with great air tight provenance treats is as a showcase piece in thier collection (everyone but the afformentioned Mr. Scott, who has a conucopia of showcase pieces )

As for Magglio and roids - now that you mention it, yes, I think I do remember hearing something along those lines. I still think it's a deal for $100. If Magglio took steroids, he doesn't anymore (if he does, he's really stupid) and he's still got great numbers.

Carlos Lee is another one...

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

for the most part, prices seem tied to player stats. beyond that, scarcity also plays a role. that said, there are a few players whose items have always struck me as notably overpriced and others as underpriced without any rhyme or reason. what players do you feel are inexplicably, oddly overpriced and/or underpriced? my list:

overpriced
----------

1) bo jackson. a solid KC Royals game-used jersey would fetch around $2k (even more if there's provenance). $2k+ for a guy who had a total of 4 good seasons and racked up these completely mediocre career stats:
141 career HRs
598 career hits
.250 career BA
never a single season with more than 32 HRs and 1 all-star game. his stats are on par with ron kittle and i don't see ron kittle jerseys going for $2k+. no doubt bo was very exciting but it was for a very, very brief amount of time.

2) mark mcgwire. i recently read about solid bats of his going for upwards of $2k. i imagine jerseys would be around $4k? what would prices be if he hadn't, you know, juiced it his entire career? $5k bats? the steroid fiasco decimated prices for canseco, sosa, and clemens items. it also deeply affected bonds' items. at least bonds racked up some impressive stats cleanly before he started juicing it in the latter half of his career. if canseco is to be believed, and he's been right on the money so far, mcgwire began juicing it early on in oakland. one big juiced career and his bats are still upwards of $2k? why did canseco and sosa take such a massive hit from it and not mcgwire? canseco bats can be had for peanuts. sosa's got more career HRs than mcgwire.

3) any rookie who's had a 1-2 yrs so far. eg: pedroia. jtbats is currently selling an ellsbury for $499. sure ellsbury's 2008 season with a thundering 9 HRs and a couldn't-quite-get-to-300 .280 BA is astounding
and has probably been replicated by only 8000 other major leaguers, but it makes me wonder why jtbats is charging much less for bats of frank thomas, gary sheffield, jim thome, etc.

underpriced
-----------

1) rickey henderson. one of the greatest ballplayers of all time, first ballot HOFer, over 3000 hits, holds the SB record, and yet his bats seem to go for around $500. compare that to ripken's bats that often go well over $1k.

2) frank thomas. thomas bats go for 1/3 to 1/2 of griffey bats. what is the big disparity between the two? neither have ever been implicated in the steroids mess. thomas has a clean 521 HRs and griffey has 611, but thomas has a .301 career BA compared to griffey's .288. sure griffey was a great outfielder for a while. i'm not knocking junior but was he really twice or three times the player thomas was? as for supply, griffey was a bat factory for his entire career, pumping stuff out to mill creek and coast to coast. certainly no scarcity for his bats. the price of thomas bats seem to be on par with sosa bats which is really confusing considering thomas' HRs are clean and sosas' aren't.

what other pricing oddities are out there?

rudy.

Rudy,

My take......

Bo Jackson's stuff has high demand for one reason and one reason only: He was a superstar athlete who was the ONLY one who ever made it as an All-Star in two professional sports. That alone makes his G.U. Items big time collectibles.

Mark McGwire.....tough case. No matter how you feel about him, I believe he will always have popularity in the game. His epic battle with Sosa was HUGE in '98, I can't remember a more popular time in the game (in our lifetime) than that duel.......and he was the first ever to hit 70 bombs in a single season, breaking Roger Maris' record on the way. Yes, it's obvious he used steroids, but he was a likeable guy......not an arrogant a-hole like Bonds, or aloof and disinterested like A-Rod can be. Last point on McGwire......He was always a big bomb hitter. Who knows where he would have ended up if he had done it square?

Underpriced......

Rickey Henderson......I will probably take a lot of heat for this, but.....I believe Ricky juiced. His body was that of a greek God, built like a brick s#!t house. He had that "strange" longevity thing going on too (make you think of anyone else who performed at a HIGH level LATE in his career?)
Also, let's just say it's hard to warm up to the guy....His third-person conversations about himself are just this side of "Twilight Zone" stuff.

Frank Thomas......also some controversy in his career, mainly in the way he was ousted by the Sox. But I think his stuff is already on the rise, and will continue as time marches on. However, there is that big fat "Steroid" question mark hanging over his head.....basically a "guilt-by-assocition" unproven theory.

Here's to hoping he's clean, and was one of the good guys.

[lund6771]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

but when did collectors ever actually wait for proof before voting with their wallets? look at clemens and sosa. no proof on those two and their items have plummeted. i remember when sosa bats were 4 figures. mac's bats have stayed up there in terms of price and sosa's did a race to the bottom. i think even mcgwire collectors feel he juiced it but just don't care. like you said, they remember being entertained for a number of years and that's apparently all that really matters. i think you're right about nostalgia which amounts to popularity. ultimately, mcgwire's fans stuck by him and sosas' didn't. not sure why. same thing driving bo jackson prices; nostalgia. everyone remembers the "bo knows" commercials and how entertaining the whole bo campaign was. 20 yrs later, apparently bo knows long-term value.

rudy.

great thread!...for myself, I've always been interested in gettng both McGuire and Sosa bats for my collection...and also a Bo Jackson jersey from the Raiders...why is that I thought to myself after reading this thread?

Was it all the media hype that these guys were getting during their "primetime"?....built up by the media as "Superman"?....maybe...for me it has nothing to do with their stats...it's the way these players made me feel while watching them

For myself, McGuire's 1998 season got me interested in baseball again...it was so much fun watching him daily that year..and the media built him up as a Paul Bunyon...McGuire was folk lore..a big, strong, all-american type of guy..a hero

I think that Sosa was just along for the ride that year...his accomplishments in 98 made the whole story even better

If McGuire presented himself before congress the same way that Pailmero and Clemens did, I think that people would think differently of him now..but he didn't...I think that people almost feel sorry for him instead of anger that they feel towards Clemens and the others...they feel betrayed by these guys now because the lied to the public that day in congress

If McGuire would have accomplished his feats cleanly, I'm sure that his jerseys would be in the $10,000 range and bats would be $5000+....

A Bo Jackson Raiders jersey is so extremely rare...

the people that pay the big money for these items are the ones that remember that these guys were larger than life in a certain period in history..will my kids have any idea who Bo Jackson was?...probably not, but there are a lot of people in my generation that will, and those are the people that will pay the big money

[suave1477]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

but when did collectors ever actually wait for proof before voting with their wallets? look at clemens and sosa. no proof on those two and their items have plummeted. i remember when sosa bats were 4 figures. mac's bats have stayed up there in terms of price and sosa's did a race to the bottom. i think even mcgwire collectors feel he juiced it but just don't care. like you said, they remember being entertained for a number of years and that's apparently all that really matters. i think you're right about nostalgia which amounts to popularity. ultimately, mcgwire's fans stuck by him and sosas' didn't. not sure why. same thing driving bo jackson prices; nostalgia. everyone remembers the "bo knows" commercials and how entertaining the whole bo campaign was. 20 yrs later, apparently bo knows long-term value.

rudy.

This is a perfect point!!

Except to add why people stood more with Sosa (I think) then Mac was because Mac was the first one to break Maris record.

Here is another example:
Why are BMW so much more expensive then Honda Accords??

Is it that much better of a car noooo they break down just like Hondas do.
Some may even say Hondas don't break down as much.
Is the BMW roomier inside then a Honda nooo Actually a Honda Accord is more roomier then a BMW.
How about maintenance costs?
Is a BMW cheaper to fix? No
Actually a BMW probably costs about 3 times more to fix than a Honda Accord.
So why are they more expensive and people would rather have a BMW (Granted if they could afford it) over a Honda.
More Hondas are produced a year Vs. BMW
Maybe it's because BMW are faster. well really what dose it matter we all have to follow the same laws and drive up to the same speed.

Because of popularity and rareness!!

[Yankwood]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

McGwire bats are desireable because it was never proven that he took steroids. His bats that are legit are usually blasted with use, and in all probability, if you have a 1998-1999 model there is a very high probability that he hit a homer(s) with it. If he had confessed to juicing point blank...things MIGHT have been different.

I am one of those people that would pay handsomely (if I had the cash right now) for a Mac bat with heavy use and team paperwork...and from what I have seen - $2000 seems about par for the course. Guys my age (33) and around my age have strong memories of Mac's whole career...and it was, for some of us, very entertaining. Nostalgia is the other half.

OVERPRICED, overhyped - overdone...Derek Jeter. Sorry, he is an average player who had a few good seasons. His defense is terrible, the worst. If he played in any other city, his value would be FAR less than $1-2K for a cracked bat.

Magglio Ordonez is undervalued. His numbers are off the charts, yet I have seen bats of his sell for less than $100.

Of course Jeter is an average player. The Hall of Fame is loaded with "average" players who have collected over 3000 hits and are "terrible" fielders who have won multiple gold gloves. I've done it-haven't you?

[suave1477]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

"Do you see the difference??"

yes but i'm not sure what that has to do with anything. from what i can follow of your logic, you're saying that since gehrig was a better player than brock, gehrig's record means more. that's some logic. so the importance of a record is dependent on how good a player the recordholder was?

the importance of a record is inherant in the record and not who held it. otherwise why would people place so much importance on the single season HR record when it was held by an otherwise mediocre player like maris? it's the record that matters, not the record holder.

gehrig was a great player who accomplished much and just happened to hold the consecutive game streak. it was a coincidence that a great player held the streak. the consecutive game record could be held by anyone lucky enough to stay healthy. it could've been held by steve trout for pete's sake or whoever else managed to show up at the park for the most consecutive games. and then what..ripken would've broken steve trout's record. you seem to imply that by breaking gehrig's record, ripken became as good as gehrig. in a performance-based record, it'd be true. in '61 maris did become a better single-season HR hitter than ruth. but ripken didn't become as good as gehrig simply by showing up to the park more times. he was just healthier and luckier. henderson's record on the other hand will only be broken by a faster, smarter baserunner.

"How can you compare Gehrig and Brock to be the same?"

where did i compare gehrig with brock? it was you who compared the two and then concluded that since gehrig was better than brock, ripken's record means more than hendersons. i simply said that upon breaking a non-HR record, ripken's bats saw a premium whereas henderson's didn't. do you see the difference?

rudy.

First you prove my point then dispute it.

Maybe this is a better example Gehrig held the record for 56 years and no one ever expected it to be broken (granted a record that means you have to show up at the ball park every day for your career and play a few innings every game)
But 56 year record is a very long time
I don't think anyone at this point is speculated to break Ripkens Record

Brocks record stood from 1979 till 1991 - 12 years
Not a very long time in comparison which makes the playing every day record and staying healthy seem that much more harder.

With already there is speculation that Jose Reyes if he was to stay healthy is on pace to passing Brock and possibly Henderson

But we will see.

Again it all boils down to popularity and Rareness.

Especially since Henderson pimped out his own equipment and added a lot more to the Game Used Hobby Market.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

McGwire bats are desireable because it was never proven that he took steroids.

but when did collectors ever actually wait for proof before voting with their wallets? look at clemens and sosa. no proof on those two and their items have plummeted. i remember when sosa bats were 4 figures. mac's bats have stayed up there in terms of price and sosa's did a race to the bottom. i think even mcgwire collectors feel he juiced it but just don't care. like you said, they remember being entertained for a number of years and that's apparently all that really matters. i think you're right about nostalgia which amounts to popularity. ultimately, mcgwire's fans stuck by him and sosas' didn't. not sure why. same thing driving bo jackson prices; nostalgia. everyone remembers the "bo knows" commercials and how entertaining the whole bo campaign was. 20 yrs later, apparently bo knows long-term value.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

"Do you see the difference??"

yes but i'm not sure what that has to do with anything. from what i can follow of your logic, you're saying that since gehrig was a better player than brock, gehrig's record means more. that's some logic. so the importance of a record is dependent on how good a player the recordholder was?

the importance of a record is inherant in the record and not who held it. otherwise why would people place so much importance on the single season HR record when it was held by an otherwise mediocre player like maris? it's the record that matters, not the record holder.

gehrig was a great player who accomplished much and just happened to hold the consecutive game streak. it was a coincidence that a great player held the streak. the consecutive game record could be held by anyone lucky enough to stay healthy. it could've been held by steve trout for pete's sake or whoever else managed to show up at the park for the most consecutive games. and then what..ripken would've broken steve trout's record. you seem to imply that by breaking gehrig's record, ripken became as good as gehrig. in a performance-based record, it'd be true. in '61 maris did become a better single-season HR hitter than ruth. but ripken didn't become as good as gehrig simply by showing up to the park more times. he was just healthier and luckier. henderson's record on the other hand will only be broken by a faster, smarter baserunner.

"How can you compare Gehrig and Brock to be the same?"

where did i compare gehrig with brock? it was you who compared the two and then concluded that since gehrig was better than brock, ripken's record means more than hendersons. i simply said that upon breaking a non-HR record, ripken's bats saw a premium whereas henderson's didn't. do you see the difference?

rudy.

[spartakid]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Bigtruck- Wasn't Ordonez tied to steriods? I bet that's why his bats have lost value.

[bigtruck260]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

McGwire bats are desireable because it was never proven that he took steroids. His bats that are legit are usually blasted with use, and in all probability, if you have a 1998-1999 model there is a very high probability that he hit a homer(s) with it. If he had confessed to juicing point blank...things MIGHT have been different.

I am one of those people that would pay handsomely (if I had the cash right now) for a Mac bat with heavy use and team paperwork...and from what I have seen - $2000 seems about par for the course. Guys my age (33) and around my age have strong memories of Mac's whole career...and it was, for some of us, very entertaining. Nostalgia is the other half.

OVERPRICED, overhyped - overdone...Derek Jeter. Sorry, he is an average player who had a few good seasons. His defense is terrible, the worst. If he played in any other city, his value would be FAR less than $1-2K for a cracked bat.

Magglio Ordonez is undervalued. His numbers are off the charts, yet I have seen bats of his sell for less than $100.

[suave1477]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

what was mattingly's "pizazz" then? what's exciting things is he remembered for? playing on some bad yankees teams? never going to the world series? breaking no records? crapping out after only 6 seasons? because his bats go for a mint. the only thing that comes to mind is the time he refused to cut his mullet. in a way, mattingly reminds me of dale murphy, except that murphy lasted longer than 6 seasons and won 2 MVPs compared to mattingly's 1. is there any interest in dale murphy bats? mattingly's bats are rare but so are mcgriffs' from the same pre-1990 time frame.

you say ripken's premium comes from breaking gehrig's record. where's henderson's premium then for breaking lou brock's record? it's not there. both them are non-HR records yet only ripkens seems to have added a premium. ripken is remembered for breaking gehrig's record but henderson isn't remembered for breaking brocks'? any way you slice it, ripken and mattingly prices are pretty strange.

rudy.

I agree with you on Mattingly wasn't that great as his bats are valued for, but it was a NY Yankee favorite. What made him stick out was that he above average during a Yankee era where most were below average. Plus his game used items are scarce.
Again - Popularity + Rarity = High Premium

Now I am shocked at your comparison of Gehrig/Ripken vs Brock/Henderson

I am not even sure if you were serious about that comparison???

I mean seriously that is a No Brainer - I am not trying to be insulting so please do not take it that way - just trying to make a point.

Gehrigs stats and Popularity
BA. 340
HR 493
AB 8001
2 X MVP
7 X All Star
7 x Voted Top Ten MVP
Hits 2721
AL Triple Crown
6 x WS Champ
23 Grand Slams
Most BB by a First Baseman
(Stats go on and on)
Stats are compared to 7 other Hall of Famers
Not to mention was part of the 1 - 2 punch of Babe Ruth
Was on the Yankees - a huge market fan base team
Gave the greatest sports speech.
Died 2 Years later in 1941 - Died way before his time
Held one of Baseball longest records to play in games. (Which was he was most famous for due to dying of an illness that caused him to stop playing)

Cal Ripken Jr.
Broke the most coveted record of a man who did all that

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lou Brock stats and popularity
BA. 293
HR 149
6 X all Star
5 X Voted Top Ten MVP
Hits 3023
SB 938
2 x WS Champ
Stats compared to 5 Hall of famers
Was on the Reds team - nowhere near the fan base of the Yankees

Rickey Henderson
Broke his stolen base record


Do you see the difference??

How can you compare Gehrig and Brock to be the same?

[Yankwood]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Perhaps supply and demand come into play here also. For as great as he was, I think I might hold him higher than alot of you do, Joe Morgan bats have never brought in much money either. Especially the ones from very late in his career. Very plentiful and thus, not very expensive.

[cjw]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Joe P @ KC Star says it better than I ever could:
---------------------------------------------------------

Between the Seams | Recalling Bo Jackson's days in baseball
By Joe Posnanski


Bo Jackson hit monstrous home runs, made miraculous defensive plays and stunned opponents with his speed. "This is not a normal guy," said teammate George Brett.



KANSAS CITY, Mo. — OK, so one day in New York, Bo Jackson complained in the dugout before a game. Reporters surrounded Bo, which never made him happy anyway. Reporters wanted to explain things, and Bo Jackson wasn't about explaining. Bo was about doing.

"Everything I do, people tend to exaggerate it," he moaned. "With me, they want to make things bigger than they are."

Bo said he was just another guy. He wasn't some sort of folk hero, like John Henry or Pecos Bill. No, he hurt like other players. He made mistakes like other players. He struck out a lot. He wasn't forged out of steel, and he couldn't outrun locomotives, and he couldn't turn back time by flying around the world and reversing the rotation of the earth.

"I'm just another player, you know?" he said.

Then the game began, Royals versus Yankees at Yankee Stadium.

First time up, Bo hit a 412-foot homer to center field.

Second time up, Bo smashed a 464-foot opposite-field home run. Longtime Yankees fans said that ball landed in a far-off place where only home runs by Ruth, Gehrig and Mantle from the left side ever reached.

"Colossal," teammate George Brett would say. "I had to stop and watch."

Third time up, Yankees manager Stump Merrill walked out to the mound to ask pitcher Andy Hawkins how he intended to get Bo out this time.

"I'll pitch it outside," Hawkins said.

"It better be way outside," Merrill replied.

Hawkins threw it way outside. Jackson poked the ball over the right-field fence for his third homer. The New York crowd went bananas.

Bo never got a fourth time up that day. Instead, he hurt his shoulder while diving and almost making one of the great catches in baseball history. New Yorkers stood and cheered as he walked off the field.

"You know what?" Royals Hall of Famer Frank White said almost 20 years later. "I really did play baseball with Superman."

It began a generation ago

It has been 20 years since Bo Jackson was a rookie. An entire generation of young baseball fans never experienced the thrill of watching Bo play baseball.

How can you explain Bo Jackson to a kid today? Old-time baseball fans and scouts tell tall tales about players. "Oh, you should have seen Mickey Mantle before he hurt his knees; he ran so fast he could bunt for doubles," they'll say.

Or, "Before Pete Reiser started running into walls, he could play left field and center field at the same time."

Or, "There was nobody quite like Monte Irvin before he went to war; he used to hit for the cycle three times a week."

So what makes Bo different? Well, for one thing, it's all on video. Bo really did break a baseball bat over his thigh after striking out. Bo really did throw a ball from left field all the way to first base on a fly to double up Hall of Fame catcher Carlton Fisk. Bo really did, in his spare time, transform into the most sensational running back the NFL has ever seen. He really did ... well, he really did a lot of stuff.

But Bo Jackson was always grouchily unimpressed with himself. Michael Jordan thought that was part of Bo's magic. "Neither of us is very easily amazed," Jordan told Newsweek in those days when he and Bo were the two greatest athletes in the world.

When Bo Jackson was called up to the big leagues after only 53 minor-league games, he shrugged. When he had his first four-hit game in only his fifth game, he announced, "It's just another night."

Two days after that, he faced Seattle's Mike Moore, a power pitcher who would win 161 games in the big leagues. Before the game, Bo went over to Willie Wilson's bats, liked the feel of one, and announced, "This is mine."

With Willie's bat, Bo hit a 475-foot blast to left-center, the longest home run ever hit at Royals Stadium.

"There's something about Bo," Royals general manager John Schuerholz said then. "Call it mystical or magical."

Sept. 2, 1986: Bo's first game. His first at-bat was against Hall of Famer Steve Carlton. He hit a ground ball to second base, and Tim Hulett picked it up and threw to first — only Bo was already past the bag.

"Oh man, nothing that big should move that fast," said Royals Hall of Famer and former hitting coach John Mayberry.

July 29, 1988: Bo Jackson was facing Baltimore's Jeff Ballard. He called timeout and stepped out of the box. He adjusted his batting glove when he realized that the umpire did not actually grant his timeout, and Ballard was throwing the ball. Jackson jumped back into the box, swung that bat and ... yeah. He hit a home run.

"Most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life," says Bob Schaeffer, Kansas City's first-base coach at the time.

May 15, 1989: Baseball writer Peter Gammons was in Minnesota to write a Sports Illustrated cover story about Jackson, so he watched Bo take batting practice. It was a typical Bo hitting session — he cracked rockets all over the field. Then it was time for his last swing. Bo jumped into the cage and hit left-handed.

He hit a titanic shot 450 feet off the Hardware Hank sign in right field.

Left-handed.

"I got work to do," Bo said to the other players, whose jaws had dropped. He ran out to the outfield to shag some fly balls.

July 11, 1990: Bo ran up the outfield wall. Literally. He chased down a fly ball and caught it about four steps in front of the fence. He put his right foot on the wall, then his left, then his right — until he was 7 feet off the ground and sideways. For a guy who didn't want to be seen as a superhero, he sure kept doing superhero things.

"What do you think of Bo Jackson?" a reporter asked Bo Jackson.

"I've known this guy for years," Bo said of Bo. "And nothing he does fazes me."

"The Throw"

There are so many more. Once, he ran over catcher Rick Dempsey. Dempsey broke his thumb but said, "I held him to fewer yards than Brian Bosworth." That goes back to a Monday night game.

And we don't even have time for all the legendary football stories.

"The Throw" deserves its own section, however. On June 5, 1989, the Royals were playing at Seattle. It was the 10th inning, score was tied 3-3, Harold Reynolds was on first base when Scott Bradley rifled a double to left field. Reynolds was running on the pitch, so it was obvious he would score the winning run. He rounded third, headed for home and prepared to have his teammates mob him when he saw his teammate Darnell Coles pumping his arms, the baseball signal for "SLIDE!"

Reynolds thought: "Slide? Are you kidding me?"

So, he was about to launch into what he called "a courtesy slide" when he saw that Kansas City catcher Bob Boone had the ball. Boone tagged him.

Bo Jackson had made a flatfooted throw of 300 feet in the air. It was a perfect strike. It was so impossible, so ridiculous, so absurd that no umpire was on the spot to make the call. Plate umpire Larry Young finally came to his senses and made a fist — Reynolds was out.

"Now I've seen it all," Scott Bradley said.

"This is not a normal guy," said teammate George Brett.

"That was just a supernatural, unbelievable play," said Seattle manager Jim Lefebve.

"I just caught the ball, turned and threw," Bo grumbled. "End of story. ... It's nothing to brag about. Don't try to make a big issue out of it."

Bo Jackson's baseball career really ended on a football field in Los Angeles. He hurt his hip against the Cincinnati Bengals. He did come back and did a few remarkable things after that, but it was different. He wasn't superhuman anymore.

Harry Houdini in cleats

The thing is, anyone who saw him play will never forget him. Every game was like a Harry Houdini performance — you expected to see something you had never seen before.

This story began with that July day in 1990 at Yankee Stadium when Bo Jackson hit three home runs before being injured.

He missed more than a month, then returned on Aug. 11 to face Seattle. He came up in the second inning. The pitcher was Randy Johnson. First pitch, Bo crushed a long fly ball to center field. The ball splashed in the waterfall to the left of the scoreboard. The Royals estimated the homer flew 450 feet.

"I'm not trying to brag," Jackson said. "But I actually saw the threads on the ball right before I hit it."

For once, Bo Jackson had impressed himself. And that might have been his greatest feat of all.

He was entertaining. He couldn't pull off an English accent though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekL3Nm4VD0M

[byergo]

Re: Underpriced / Overpriced Oddities

Joe P @ KC Star says it better than I ever could:
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Between the Seams | Recalling Bo Jackson's days in baseball
By Joe Posnanski


Bo Jackson hit monstrous home runs, made miraculous defensive plays and stunned opponents with his speed. "This is not a normal guy," said teammate George Brett.



KANSAS CITY, Mo. — OK, so one day in New York, Bo Jackson complained in the dugout before a game. Reporters surrounded Bo, which never made him happy anyway. Reporters wanted to explain things, and Bo Jackson wasn't about explaining. Bo was about doing.

"Everything I do, people tend to exaggerate it," he moaned. "With me, they want to make things bigger than they are."

Bo said he was just another guy. He wasn't some sort of folk hero, like John Henry or Pecos Bill. No, he hurt like other players. He made mistakes like other players. He struck out a lot. He wasn't forged out of steel, and he couldn't outrun locomotives, and he couldn't turn back time by flying around the world and reversing the rotation of the earth.

"I'm just another player, you know?" he said.

Then the game began, Royals versus Yankees at Yankee Stadium.

First time up, Bo hit a 412-foot homer to center field.

Second time up, Bo smashed a 464-foot opposite-field home run. Longtime Yankees fans said that ball landed in a far-off place where only home runs by Ruth, Gehrig and Mantle from the left side ever reached.

"Colossal," teammate George Brett would say. "I had to stop and watch."

Third time up, Yankees manager Stump Merrill walked out to the mound to ask pitcher Andy Hawkins how he intended to get Bo out this time.

"I'll pitch it outside," Hawkins said.

"It better be way outside," Merrill replied.

Hawkins threw it way outside. Jackson poked the ball over the right-field fence for his third homer. The New York crowd went bananas.

Bo never got a fourth time up that day. Instead, he hurt his shoulder while diving and almost making one of the great catches in baseball history. New Yorkers stood and cheered as he walked off the field.

"You know what?" Royals Hall of Famer Frank White said almost 20 years later. "I really did play baseball with Superman."

It began a generation ago

It has been 20 years since Bo Jackson was a rookie. An entire generation of young baseball fans never experienced the thrill of watching Bo play baseball.

How can you explain Bo Jackson to a kid today? Old-time baseball fans and scouts tell tall tales about players. "Oh, you should have seen Mickey Mantle before he hurt his knees; he ran so fast he could bunt for doubles," they'll say.

Or, "Before Pete Reiser started running into walls, he could play left field and center field at the same time."

Or, "There was nobody quite like Monte Irvin before he went to war; he used to hit for the cycle three times a week."

So what makes Bo different? Well, for one thing, it's all on video. Bo really did break a baseball bat over his thigh after striking out. Bo really did throw a ball from left field all the way to first base on a fly to double up Hall of Fame catcher Carlton Fisk. Bo really did, in his spare time, transform into the most sensational running back the NFL has ever seen. He really did ... well, he really did a lot of stuff.

But Bo Jackson was always grouchily unimpressed with himself. Michael Jordan thought that was part of Bo's magic. "Neither of us is very easily amazed," Jordan told Newsweek in those days when he and Bo were the two greatest athletes in the world.

When Bo Jackson was called up to the big leagues after only 53 minor-league games, he shrugged. When he had his first four-hit game in only his fifth game, he announced, "It's just another night."

Two days after that, he faced Seattle's Mike Moore, a power pitcher who would win 161 games in the big leagues. Before the game, Bo went over to Willie Wilson's bats, liked the feel of one, and announced, "This is mine."

With Willie's bat, Bo hit a 475-foot blast to left-center, the longest home run ever hit at Royals Stadium.

"There's something about Bo," Royals general manager John Schuerholz said then. "Call it mystical or magical."

Sept. 2, 1986: Bo's first game. His first at-bat was against Hall of Famer Steve Carlton. He hit a ground ball to second base, and Tim Hulett picked it up and threw to first — only Bo was already past the bag.

"Oh man, nothing that big should move that fast," said Royals Hall of Famer and former hitting coach John Mayberry.

July 29, 1988: Bo Jackson was facing Baltimore's Jeff Ballard. He called timeout and stepped out of the box. He adjusted his batting glove when he realized that the umpire did not actually grant his timeout, and Ballard was throwing the ball. Jackson jumped back into the box, swung that bat and ... yeah. He hit a home run.

"Most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life," says Bob Schaeffer, Kansas City's first-base coach at the time.

May 15, 1989: Baseball writer Peter Gammons was in Minnesota to write a Sports Illustrated cover story about Jackson, so he watched Bo take batting practice. It was a typical Bo hitting session — he cracked rockets all over the field. Then it was time for his last swing. Bo jumped into the cage and hit left-handed.

He hit a titanic shot 450 feet off the Hardware Hank sign in right field.

Left-handed.

"I got work to do," Bo said to the other players, whose jaws had dropped. He ran out to the outfield to shag some fly balls.

July 11, 1990: Bo ran up the outfield wall. Literally. He chased down a fly ball and caught it about four steps in front of the fence. He put his right foot on the wall, then his left, then his right — until he was 7 feet off the ground and sideways. For a guy who didn't want to be seen as a superhero, he sure kept doing superhero things.

"What do you think of Bo Jackson?" a reporter asked Bo Jackson.

"I've known this guy for years," Bo said of Bo. "And nothing he does fazes me."

"The Throw"

There are so many more. Once, he ran over catcher Rick Dempsey. Dempsey broke his thumb but said, "I held him to fewer yards than Brian Bosworth." That goes back to a Monday night game.

And we don't even have time for all the legendary football stories.

"The Throw" deserves its own section, however. On June 5, 1989, the Royals were playing at Seattle. It was the 10th inning, score was tied 3-3, Harold Reynolds was on first base when Scott Bradley rifled a double to left field. Reynolds was running on the pitch, so it was obvious he would score the winning run. He rounded third, headed for home and prepared to have his teammates mob him when he saw his teammate Darnell Coles pumping his arms, the baseball signal for "SLIDE!"

Reynolds thought: "Slide? Are you kidding me?"

So, he was about to launch into what he called "a courtesy slide" when he saw that Kansas City catcher Bob Boone had the ball. Boone tagged him.

Bo Jackson had made a flatfooted throw of 300 feet in the air. It was a perfect strike. It was so impossible, so ridiculous, so absurd that no umpire was on the spot to make the call. Plate umpire Larry Young finally came to his senses and made a fist — Reynolds was out.

"Now I've seen it all," Scott Bradley said.

"This is not a normal guy," said teammate George Brett.

"That was just a supernatural, unbelievable play," said Seattle manager Jim Lefebve.

"I just caught the ball, turned and threw," Bo grumbled. "End of story. ... It's nothing to brag about. Don't try to make a big issue out of it."

Bo Jackson's baseball career really ended on a football field in Los Angeles. He hurt his hip against the Cincinnati Bengals. He did come back and did a few remarkable things after that, but it was different. He wasn't superhuman anymore.

Harry Houdini in cleats

The thing is, anyone who saw him play will never forget him. Every game was like a Harry Houdini performance — you expected to see something you had never seen before.

This story began with that July day in 1990 at Yankee Stadium when Bo Jackson hit three home runs before being injured.

He missed more than a month, then returned on Aug. 11 to face Seattle. He came up in the second inning. The pitcher was Randy Johnson. First pitch, Bo crushed a long fly ball to center field. The ball splashed in the waterfall to the left of the scoreboard. The Royals estimated the homer flew 450 feet.

"I'm not trying to brag," Jackson said. "But I actually saw the threads on the ball right before I hit it."

For once, Bo Jackson had impressed himself. And that might have been his greatest feat of all.