Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

rudy that is crazzy, to eliminate a segment of the jerseys because it was a star player? Who's to say that stars did not get different tagging from commons? There are examples of miss tagged years in all sports, missing patches on jerseys. Stars who wore shirt's that were 2 plus years old, recycled jerseys. A jersey should be evaluated on it's own merrits not someone conteniton about tag borders or eliminate the superstatrs. So in your theory how would you evaluate a jersey of a superstar. What would be your base point?

[kingjammy24]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

1) its my personal opinion that in attempting to determine tagging issues, jerseys of stars and superstars shouldn't be used as examples. the reasons are obvious. you're far better off, for the purpose of accurate results, to use jerseys from common players. there are a myriad of reasons, some legit and some not legit, why the jerseys of superstars are sometimes different from the jerseys of common players. if you were trying, for example, to determine the proper tagging for 1990 rawlings jerseys would you seriously include ripkens, bonds, and mcgwires? why when you could instead use leonards, breams, and gallegos and eliminate a whole slew of issues that might easily distort the results?

2) for a long time it's appeared to me that mears would slap an A10 on something if it had an athlete's "game used" notation. of course, mears never made any sort of qualitative distinction between players like arod who slapped "game used" on anything and more discerning and honest players. namath slapped a "game used" on that SB3 helmet and we all saw how worthwhile that notation was. same deal with arod and bonds. from some players, a "game used" notation means nothing.

3) i'd like to see dave's results with HOF'er jerseys removed. out of all of the jerseys mentioned in dave's report, the ONLY one without blue lines that's a common jersey is lee walls. haney, mccatty, drago, aviles, kearny, drumright all had blue lines. the ones without blue lines? yaz, rice, jackson, fingers, ryan, fisk.

for the purpose of finding out the most accurate, plausible answers, i think it behooves everyone to leave out the superstar jerseys.

rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

For all that are interested MEARS article is online

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

I have a 77 Rice road with blue border tag letters and numbers are pounded tags are crisp so that theory don't hold up. There are game worn jerseys from the 50ties with crisp tags.

[Marichal27]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Marichal27 it's funny all I have asked Mr. Lewis for is proof which he has not provided. Have not ragged on him once. Have gone out of my way to be kind towards him.

Let me take your statement listed below point by point.

"Believe me, a freight train is coming, and if I were you, I'd get far away from the tracks. McAullife did use a blue border at that time, whether it was a high school jersey or an mlb JERSEY. dO YOUR HOMEWORK.In Thai, they would say that you are MOONG! Look at the difference in the newness/oldness of the numbers, etc. vs. the McAullife tag in that '77 Lynn jersey. You sound like a Mikequickness."

1. A freight train is coming and if I were you, I'd get far away from the tracks?

Then I guess alot of advance collectors, auction houses and authenticators are all going to get hit by it.Read the the whole I said if proven wrong I would try and locate every borderless jersey people have purchased and try to help them get a refund.

2. McAullife did use a blue border at that time, whether it was a high school jersey or an mlb JERSEY.

According to Mr. Lewis that is not the case that the way to tell a MLB jersey apart from a High School is the lack of the blue border, just so we are both on the same page.

3. Do my homework?

I have and my home work has located numerous borderless examples from starts to commons that is why the debate rages on. Case in point borderless A's Walls COACHES Jersey, who is going to forge a coach?

4. Look at the difference in the newness/oldness of the numbers, etc?

Borderless or bordered the jerseys are both 1977 so the numbers are the same age so I dont understand your premis.

Futhermore if these shirts were made for beer leagues, softball teams, high schools etc dont you think they would exhibit tremendous use? As unlike a pro jersey that was worn for 1 season most high schools or beer league teams did not get new shirt each season and as such wouldnt you expect these shirts to be in worse conditon then a MLB jersey that was properly cared for?

5. Mikequickness?

Sorry I dont understand the reference

Finally if you were bidding on a Bonds jersey and the price point reached
$ 10,000.00 can you please provide the auction link and what ultimately happend in that situation?

Bosox...I'm saying look at the crispness of your McAullife tag. Compare it to the rest of the jersey. looks like more wear and washings on the jersey than it does on the tagging. On the photos, the tag seems too new compared to the rest of the jersey. As far as that "Bonds', it was from an AMI auction about 4 years ago. Supposedly a 2001 road w/flag; Lon spotted this as a fake and did some talking to them (AMI) and I received my $$ back.

[Moustache Gang]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Bosox,

The Torrez appears to be all original minus the name and I believe he did wear a 46 in '76.

I have talked to Lon via emails and he advised that he will be posting in the near future.

Again, I have always stated that A's McAuliffe game used knit jerseys have both blue and non-blue border manufacturer's tags. I have been collecting A's McAuliffe's for almost 20 years and I have not observed one shread of empirical evidence that states' "blue border are game used" and "non-blue border are retail, game issued, non-game worn" jerseys.

I believe in talking to Lon he tried to explain via emails to you what he knows and possibly some of his comments were taken out of text.

No reason for anyone to point fingers here at anybody or get upset. I believe Lon's comments will be in line with my thoughts that you have to look at each jersey and make your own decision based on wear, tagging, sizing, tag location, alterations, etc.

In my all my years of collection I was always told to watch out for 1975 Reggie Jackson jerseys tagged size 44. I am still leery of Reggie tagged 1975 size 44. One of the biggest signs of a "doctored" or "altered" as jersey is to look at he sewn on numbers and lettering. In the 70's McAuliffe used the old the old tackle twill that is not real shiney. Many who try to doctor a common A's McAuliffe knit jersey into a HOF Jackson, Hunter or Fingers will use today's poly-twill that was not made until after the 70's McAuliffe jerseys. The poly-twill has a shine or sheen to it as compared to the tackle twill of the 70's. It is almost alwasys a dead give away. I always knew something looked inconsistent with some of the A's jerseys out there and Lon Lewis told me what I had always thought about the tackle twill. I just did not know about the poly twill or years that it was introduced by manufacturers until Lon advised me.

I would wait for Lon's posting and then comment based on his posting.

Thanks,

Mark

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

it's funny 2 season later Torrez is a size 50 in boston

[dcrules01]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

I love A's jerseys just wanted to add that..

[iceman13]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

'76 with border

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330314114373

excited to see how this all eventually concludes.

rudy.

The 76 Torrez is my jersey. With respect to the tagging question, I have a 1977 Medich A's. It also has the blue border on the McAuliff tag.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

'76 with border

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330314114373

excited to see how this all eventually concludes.

rudy.

[beantown]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

If the alleged theory is that "non-borderless" tags are only on retail jerseys...here's another...


http://cgi.ebay.com/1975-Game-Used-R...QQcmdZViewItem

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Marichal27 it's funny all I have asked Mr. Lewis for is proof which he has not provided. Have not ragged on him once. Have gone out of my way to be kind towards him.

Let me take your statement listed below point by point.

"Believe me, a freight train is coming, and if I were you, I'd get far away from the tracks. McAullife did use a blue border at that time, whether it was a high school jersey or an mlb JERSEY. dO YOUR HOMEWORK.In Thai, they would say that you are MOONG! Look at the difference in the newness/oldness of the numbers, etc. vs. the McAullife tag in that '77 Lynn jersey. You sound like a Mikequickness."

1. A freight train is coming and if I were you, I'd get far away from the tracks?

Then I guess alot of advance collectors, auction houses and authenticators are all going to get hit by it.Read the the whole I said if proven wrong I would try and locate every borderless jersey people have purchased and try to help them get a refund.

2. McAullife did use a blue border at that time, whether it was a high school jersey or an mlb JERSEY.

According to Mr. Lewis that is not the case that the way to tell a MLB jersey apart from a High School is the lack of the blue border, just so we are both on the same page.

3. Do my homework?

I have and my home work has located numerous borderless examples from starts to commons that is why the debate rages on. Case in point borderless A's Walls COACHES Jersey, who is going to forge a coach?

4. Look at the difference in the newness/oldness of the numbers, etc?

Borderless or bordered the jerseys are both 1977 so the numbers are the same age so I dont understand your premis.

Futhermore if these shirts were made for beer leagues, softball teams, high schools etc dont you think they would exhibit tremendous use? As unlike a pro jersey that was worn for 1 season most high schools or beer league teams did not get new shirt each season and as such wouldnt you expect these shirts to be in worse conditon then a MLB jersey that was properly cared for?

5. Mikequickness?

Sorry I dont understand the reference

Finally if you were bidding on a Bonds jersey and the price point reached
$ 10,000.00 can you please provide the auction link and what ultimately happend in that situation?

[Marichal27]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

Bosox.....You have photos of various McAullife jerseys. Why do you still keep on ragging on Mr. Lewis?? The proof is in front of your face! Forum members have scaned photos of that era. Seems like you are an expert in the class of MEARS (YUK) Lampson (another yuk).You just don't want to admidt you bought a bogus jersey, now you want to unload it. I won a bogus Bonds jersey, til someone clewed me in that it was a fake. That person happened to be Lon. That person saved me over 5 figures. Believe me, a freight train is coming, and if I were you, I'd get far away from the tracks. McAullife did use a blue border at that time, whether it was a high school jersey or an mlb JERSEY. dO YOUR HOMEWORK.In Thai, they would say that you are MOONG! Look at the difference in the newness/oldness of the numbers, etc. vs. the McAullife tag in that '77 Lynn jersey. You sound like a Mikequickness.

[mdube16]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

This is a great thread. For sure I wouldnt be writing any checks for Sox or A's jerseys from this era right now. I cant wait to see Dave's findings over the next week.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Re: Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

For anyone interested there is more information on the MEARS board on this topic including some very interesting point about a A's jersey that Dave M uses as a basis for his theory.