My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

If you have a question for me, you can go ahead and post it here. Also, please identify who you are.

Bobby

Bobby you'll know who this is. It's who I would have sent you to anyway. It sounds like this whole thing will be resolved soon enough. Thanks!

[prosvr1]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

I have information about the glove, and when you contact me you will know who I'm This is a bad deal all the way around. I would like to know what information you have, So I can get this taken care of for the person who owns the glove and was going to sell it to Mike

[suave1477]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

After reviewing carefully everything said I see everyone either failed to mention or missed one of the most biggest pieces to the obvious puzzle.......... now maybe I am wrong but I am judging by the 2 pictures shown. So if I am wrong I apologize ahead of time.

If you look at the actual glove purchased and the one Manny wearing in the Getty photo!!

The Getty photo shows one leather strap down the webbing of the glove and the one purchased shows 2 straps coming down the glove.

Now you may say well it's the angle of the Getty photo you do not see the second one but if you look closely the angles are not that far off and the width of the webbing looks a lot shorter on the one Manny is wearing in the Getty photo than the width on the purchased glove.

There definitely seems like a noticeable width difference in the webbing and one to pay close attention too, which would be the reason it (Getty photo) would only be able to have 1 strap down.

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Bobby please email directly about this glove
Thanks prosvr1@tds.net

If you have a question for me, you can go ahead and post it here. Also, please identify who you are.

Bobby

[prosvr1]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Bobby please email directly about this glove
Thanks prosvr1@tds.net

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Wow! I can't say I'm shocked b/c you generally know exactly what you're talking about, but that's crazy right there. The glove was inspected and identified as the same glove. Thank you for mentioning this to me. The glove is being brought to Sportsworld to be shown to Phil so he can see firsthand. I don't think anyone had ill intent with this attempted transaction, but it's always a strike against the hobby when bad stuff finds its way in. Thankfully I'm not the only one here that's a bit disturbed and there are some guys that will hopefully get to the bottom of things. MB

Michael,

Couple of questions I have for you.......do you know the date Phil purchased this glove or when did the guy that sold you the glove purchase it from Phil?

Also, you mentioned that the provenance is from a very tight-knit group of private Red Sox/Manny guys that have some of the biggest authentic collections around. Can you tell me who they are or can you email me privately with some names?

Thanks, Bobby

[AWA85]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Not always good news to collectors, but this forum continues to amaze me with the helpful information and guidance provided.

Hope you get it all squared away!

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Here's the last name that was written.

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Wow! I can't say I'm shocked b/c you generally know exactly what you're talking about, but that's crazy right there. The glove was inspected and identified as the same glove. Thank you for mentioning this to me. The glove is being brought to Sportsworld to be shown to Phil so he can see firsthand. I don't think anyone had ill intent with this attempted transaction, but it's always a strike against the hobby when bad stuff finds its way in. Thankfully I'm not the only one here that's a bit disturbed and there are some guys that will hopefully get to the bottom of things. MB

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Here's the photos.....took me a while to locate them as I had to search my yahoo mail.

The glove had a Dominican last name(cant remember the name)written in silver pen which can barely be seen on the 2nd photo ring finger slot and also the MPR 20 was altered to MAR 24.

I showed this glove to a couple of glove experts and they both stated that Manny gets fielding gloves from different company reps, in hopes that he would use them and this was most likely given to one of his Domincan buddies for use.

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

I wasn't refering to you!!

I'm talking still about Bobby's claim and waiting to see what he has to say before moving forward...

[CampWest]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Sure it's a style match... and a pretty good one for a 2003 glove. That was never the issue and you're correct when you say I never claimed it to be an exact photomatch. The "issue" here, and the only thing I've ever been concerned with, is that a well-known Manny collector from these boards said it's not legit, was doctored, has evidence, and was offered the same glove last year.

Do we really think Rawlings cranks out identical player-quality gloves time after time without even minor alterations? Someone actually sits down and hand crafts these. Maybe they didn't have brown piping around when the glove in question was made so they went with black. Maybe it was repaired or replaced post-use. To me, it's the same as the fact that no two bats are the same, or that ball marks and other mysterious markings may show up after photos were taken. I think it's a pretty major accusation to question Sportsworld and the small number of collectors that have seen this piece in the last several years without some pretty hard conclusive evidence.

I don't recall ever stating the glove was a fraud or not game used. I read a post from a well respected Manny collector claiming it was questionable and there are some inconsistencies between this glove and the only "style match" photos presented. I said nothing about Sportsworld or any collectors that have seen the piece. I don't recall making any accusations.

All I stated was that those inconsitencies would concern me if I was the buyer when combined with the concerns from the other Manny collector who flat out stated it was an altered fake. Its being stated that Manny only used that "style" of glove for a very short time in 2003, if he used that style so sparingly, I would not expect many many gloves with multiple variations in lacing locations and color to have been made for him, much less multiple variations of the same sparingly used glove to have been game used.

My sincerest apologies for offending you, sportsworld or any other collectors. Though I honestly don't see how I could have by just pointing out some lacing differences and asking a question for my own personal education.

[gameused]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Bobby, you're killing me with the wait!

Please email me michael_benko@yahoo.com or post for all of us on here what evidence you have. I'm fielding lots of calls and emails from people that want to know and most importantly in this case I need to know. We've essentially retraced the glove back to Manny and it's only been with one owner after Phil and never offered for sale to anyone. Apparently it was still in the original bag up until last week when the photos were done. Even Phil has been reached for comment. Thanks in advance!

Michael,

Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm still at work and will be home in an hour, really busy day for me. I apologize for keeping you waiting for so long.

Thanks,
Bobby

[LastingsMilledge85]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

I thought style match meant it looked EXACTLY the same as one in a photo, but there were no marks or indications that it was the EXACT one to call it an actual "match?"

[nationals2k9]

Re: My first Manny Ramirez game-used glove!!!!!

Two things concern me... The lace on the middle web off the index finger. The Getty picture the brown lace is on the "fingers" side of the white seam line, but in the acquired glove its on the thumb side of the white seam line.

Also the getty glove has a brown trim edge on the hand vent hole whereas the acquired glove appears to have black trim edge.

And maybe a non-issue but the thumb laces look longer in the getty image, but of course the difference could be another knot tied since that picture was taken.

I know you are not calling it a photo match, but I think it raises a question and disproves it as a photomatch, unless there is something else I cannot see.
Does it still qualify as a style match with those differences?

Sure it's a style match... and a pretty good one for a 2003 glove. That was never the issue and you're correct when you say I never claimed it to be an exact photomatch. The "issue" here, and the only thing I've ever been concerned with, is that a well-known Manny collector from these boards said it's not legit, was doctored, has evidence, and was offered the same glove last year.

Do we really think Rawlings cranks out identical player-quality gloves time after time without even minor alterations? Someone actually sits down and hand crafts these. Maybe they didn't have brown piping around when the glove in question was made so they went with black. Maybe it was repaired or replaced post-use. To me, it's the same as the fact that no two bats are the same, or that ball marks and other mysterious markings may show up after photos were taken. I think it's a pretty major accusation to question Sportsworld and the small number of collectors that have seen this piece in the last several years without some pretty hard conclusive evidence.