I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

[hblakewolf]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey


Interesting comments:

In your earlier post you note, "I know someone that works for the Red Sox. (I'm not saying who.) I asked him to check out Papi's gamers. He literally went into the clubhouse during the game and read me the numbers from jerseys in Ortiz's locker.

Now you mention, "The Red Sox have very strict rules regarding employees so my “contact” actually can’t get stuff...Earlier this year a security guard asked Pedro Martinez to sign a ball... He was fired within an hour. notice all the surveillance cameras around the place. I’ll bet there are 200+ non-broadcast cameras in there now.

There used to be all kinds of equipment and jerseys coming out of there. Now there is not. Why? They hired a new guy that is like Big Brother watching over the place. He has clamped down on any possible tokens of appreciation that players could give to workers. There used to be a hazy gray area. Now it is black and white. You do X, Y or Z and you are fired. That’s it. No ifs, ands or buts.

Based on your most recent post, you expect us to believe your "contact" just walked into the clubhouse, stood in front of Ortiz's locker, and examined over a dozen jerseys inside of his locker (during a game no less!) to try to assit you in determining if your jersey was real? He did this knowing that an 8 year Red Sox employee was recently fired for asking for an autograph, knowing that there are over 200 cameras and an individual is roaming the place strictly looking for problems and crooks?
Did he happen to mention that he also took a quick dip in the Jacuzzi and tried a plate of the post-game spread, all before the 7th inning stretch?

You can't be serious!

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

nesports:
i'm aware that ortiz is free to keep whatever he likes in his locker. in fact, i even said that i agreed that a likely hypothesis may be that the 11 jerseys in his locker may be those that he ordered. however, you're missing two crucial points:
how can ortiz wear road jerseys if they're sitting in his locker at fenway? and
why is ortiz keeping road jerseys in his locker at fenway instead of in the equipment room where all of the other player's road jerseys are kept?

"Something tells me Papi put the extra road jerseys in his locker.."

why is he intentionally stocking his home locker with road jerseys he ordered? he certainly can't wear them at home, can he?

when the team packs for a road trip, the equipment staff fetch the road jerseys from the equipment room. for ortiz they fetch them from his locker? and then when they return, all of the bags are unpacked and everyone's road uniforms are placed back in the equipment room. yet when ortiz's bags are unpacked, his road jerseys are put in his locker? does big papi not trust the equipment room?

you think he ordered them, received them at fenway, then takes them on the road and wears them, brings them back to fenway and chooses to personally store them in his locker for some wierd reason? i can think of a more plausible alternative.

"He could have ordered a ton of jerseys to wear only one time.."
or he could have ordered a ton of jerseys to not wear at all. ordering "a zillion jerseys" is different than actually wearing a zillion jerseys.

"So what does that mean about the value of his jerseys?"
if ortiz is ordering boxes of jerseys then, as you said, "the money is not the issue. The authenticity is..". if you're a believer in occam's razor, then how's this for an alternate theory to the ones provided above:
ortiz receives boxes of jerseys at his home, doesn't bother taking them on the road, and every now and then brings a few from his home to the ballpark for his muchachos. the road jerseys he actually uses are packed and unpacked just like everyone elses and kept in the equipment room. ortiz is essentially operating a side business selling huge amounts of un-used jerseys, and that's why these road jerseys aren't with the others in the equipment room but rather in his locker (because they were never packed/unpacked for any road trips. they simply made the trek from his boston home to fenway so there'd be no reason to put them anywhere but his locker) and that's why they're coded 6200. i'm not sure why the fact that he may be doing this comforts you.

at the end of the day, it's you that has to be comfortable with your items. from the sounds of it, you're quite pleased so i think this thread is done.

on a side note, i'm sure your buddy looked great on the security cameras going through ortiz's jerseys examining each tag. some guy poking into ortiz's locker during a game like he's looking for spare change.

rudy.

[CollectGU]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Isn't it possible that Papi ordered extras to trade with other players both home and away and has some in his locker...Why is this so unbelievable....

[trsent]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Isn't it possible that Papi ordered extras to trade with other players both home and away and has some in his locker...Why is this so unbelievable....

Soccer players trade, maybe Red Sox players trade.

[CollectGU]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Below was taken from another thread on the baord. After reading the story, i think that Papi having extra jerseys for this very reason, as he is one of the most popular players in the league is indeed plausable:



Here's an interesting article on players who trade jerseys with other players.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi... ate=20060828

I knew this went on, but didn't realize it was so widespread. Adds a new wrinkle to the whole "game used" vs. "game issued" debate since it seems these traded jerseys aren't necessarily worn before being traded. I've been told that Pujols does this (I'd think his jersey is really in demand), but the jerseys he gives away are tailored differently than his gamers -- gamers have a straight hem, the "giveaways" have tails. I'm also aware of "gift jerseys" that have 6200 laundry tags. I've wondered if Majestic, knowing an order of a dozen jerseys is being made for player trading, intentionally supplies 6200 jerseys. It could explain why some "gamers" have 6200 tags. Who knows?

Jeff
http://www.birdbats.com

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

i've repeatedly stated that it's likely ortiz purchases jerseys to sell/trade. this was never a point of debate. the original issue in this thread was whether these jerseys are gameworn. i've reiterated the same position as the article that these jerseys are purchased, sold/traded, and not gameworn.
again, in short: yes ortiz probably purchases jerseys, yes he most likely trades/sells them. nothing about this is "unbelievable". what is unbelievable and what is the issue is whether these jerseys are gameworn.

as i said, there's a difference between ordering a jersey and wearing a jersey. if nesports wanted an unworn, unissued, ortiz-purchased jersey, then i don't think there'd be much to talk about.

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Rudy-
Likewise, let's not discard his information about his "contact" snooping around the clubhouse, either.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[CollectGU]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Rudy,

If he has 5 home jerseys in his locker for a home game, do you think Papi or the equipment manager is going to look to see which ones are coded 0062 or 6200 before he puts one on. Rob Steinmetz sold a 6200 coded Clemens in one of AMI's auctions as a gamer......

Dave

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

hi dave,

you chose to specifically mention home jerseys only. my original issue was with road jerseys in his home locker.

do i think papi or the equipment manager looks at the codes before he puts one on? no, because even big papi knows not to wear a road uniform for a home game. given that the equipment manager isn't putting road uniforms into home lockers, it makes it pretty obvious to ortiz who put them there.

regarding home jerseys, i'll opine ortiz likely knows which ones he brought in and which uniform was laid out for him prior to his arrival in the clubhouse by the equipment staff. in reading the article, it seemed the players were pretty well-aware that they were trading/selling/buying unworn jerseys. they're intentionally trading crisp jerseys. the only way they're doing this is by being aware of which ones theyve ordered and which ones they really wear. it's really not as confusing as you may think. looking at codes isn't necessary.
if you doubt this, just examine set 1 Arod texas gamers vs set 3. now why is it the set 1's are hammered and the set 3's are crisp? however did arod manage to keep the 2 apart? did he look at the codes before putting each one on? is it magic that all the un-team tagged set 3's are crisp? they're well aware. it doesn't take a detective to tell the jerseys apart when you've lugged 10 of them in from your car into the clubhouse where 1 or 2 were already laid out by the equipment staff prior to your arrival.

as for rob steinmetz's 6200 coded clemens, what does that have to do with anything? my first post in this thread stated "re: the 6200 code. although intended for retail, they've been known to make it into clubhouses and used in games... i don't think a 6200 automatically and conclusively means it couldn't have been game used". the big issue is not the 6200. the big issue is the numerous road jerseys in the home locker.

the fact that all 11 were coded 6200 doesn't help. if rob had 11 6200-coded jerseys from a single player then i think most would agree that's a cause for concern. we're not talking about 1 6200. we're talking about 11 and the fact that road jerseys are in a home locker.

rudy.

[CollectGU]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Rudy,

Forget about the road jerseys for one second...Let's assume papi ordered 6 extra home jerseys for himself...My question is - If Papi ordered 6 extra home jerseys and they were coded 6200 and mixed together with the team ordered jerseys in his locker, do you really think that Papi or the euip manager cares and looks which ones are ordered by him and which by the team? My answer is no and some of the 6200 get worn and some of the 0062 get traded...What does papi or the equip. manager care which is which - only collectors care and they could care less about conversations like this...

[kingjammy24]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

dave,

in order to arrive at an irrelevant conclusion (ortiz can't tell the difference between 0062s and 6200s), you're constructing several unlikely premises.

"Forget about the road jerseys for one second"

ok. let's forget about the smoking gun for a second.

"If Papi ordered 6 extra home jerseys and they were coded 6200 and mixed together with the team ordered jerseys in his locker.."

if ortiz ordered these and IF they were mixed in with team ordered jerseys, then ortiz likely couldn't tell the difference. we've arrived at the conclusion you wanted, as unhelpful as it may be to the real issue.

back to realities; who said anything about ortiz's orders being mixed in? that's a huge IF that you've assumed to support your conclusion.
nesports said his friend looked through all 11 jerseys in ortiz's locker and ALL were 6200s. he didn't say he found a mix of 0062s and 6200s which would indicate ortiz did mix them in. he said he found only 6200s. do you realize what this means? that NOTHING was mixed. ALL the jerseys were 6200s/ortiz-ordered. is it at all likely that majestic did not ship any 0062 jerseys to ortiz? i'll tell you where the 0062 jersey was: on ortiz's back during the game. if you want to pretend there was a mix to support some hypothetical conclusion, then that's beyond this discussion.

given that it's been proven there was no mix, what compelling evidence have you that ortiz mixes his orders and the teams orders into one big pile and can't tell the difference?
other than the evidence presented above, i'll add that the reality that players are selling/trading crisp jerseys strongly suggests they're very adept at keeping the 2 separate doesn't it?

the reality that there was no mix and the reality that players are trading/selling crisp jerseys undeniably lends serious weight to my theory. your idea 1) requires that we ignore the road jerseys 2) ignore the fact that there was no mix 3) pretend there was a mix 4) pretend players are trading worn and unworn jerseys when in fact they aren't.

if you'd like to believe in all of those assumptions, then i fail to see how they're leading you to any accurate conclusions. i ask this in all seriousness: have you invested in a bulk of 6200-coded ortiz jerseys?

rudy.

[nesportspromotions]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

One of two things are going on with you Howard...

#1 You are on a witch hunt....

OR

#2 You want me to say who my contact is....

Well I'm not going to say who my source is. Oh and by the way... There are no surveillance cameras in the locker area of the clubhouse.

Howard I'll type your response for you: "You can't be serious!" Yup I'm serious. There are no surveillance cameras where people are NAKED before and after every game.
OK Howard I'll type your response to that: "But there are TV cameras in the locker area after the game when the guys are changing." Yup you're correct again. BUT they are not supposed to video tape the players and coaches in the nude. There is someone controlling a TV camera. It is not placed on a wall to view the whole room 24/7.

BTW: My contact can take a plate of food from the post game spread everyday if he wants to. He could take a dip in the whirlpool and use the weight room too.


NOW AS FAR AS THE WITCH HUNT GOES:
Howard you are a rude person. You are a bully. I personally have never even met you (and don't ever care to) but you leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm completely disgusted with you and your comments. I'm sorry your 0062 jersey is not worth all that much anymore. It's not my fault there are a bunch of Big Papi 6200 jerseys that could have seen game play. It's obvious that because of this thread you feel threatened monetarily. That's why you keep attacking me so vehemently. I paid too much for my two jerseys but I feel better knowing there are 6200's in his locker. There are homes and roads there. The jerseys I have might never have seen the field at all. I don't know. For all I know the home jersey we've been seeing Papi where on TV could be the same one he had on his back Opening Day. It's not 100% on any jersey no matter who it comes from and no matter who's letter it comes with.













"Based on your most recent post, you expect us to believe your "contact" just walked into the clubhouse, stood in front of Ortiz's locker, and examined over a dozen jerseys inside of his locker (during a game no less!) to try to assit you in determining if your jersey was real? He did this knowing that an 8 year Red Sox employee was recently fired for asking for an autograph, knowing that there are over 200 cameras and an individual is roaming the place strictly looking for problems and crooks?
Did he happen to mention that he also took a quick dip in the Jacuzzi and tried a plate of the post-game spread, all before the 7th inning stretch?

You can't be serious!

Howard Wolf"

[nesportspromotions]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Hey Rudy it really doesn't seem logical to have ROAD jerseys in his home locker. I agree with that.

BUT

My friend that does not work at Fenway but is a collector of Game Used jerseys told me there is "NO WAY" a 6200 could be a game used jersey. Well he could be right. He also could be wrong. The bottom line is this: There are 6200's in Papi's home locker. So these jerseys could have been worn by Ortiz in a game. I feel a little better about my purchase now. I'm not 100% but at least that is better being certain they did not get used in a game.

There are jerseys out there from the 1910's and 1920's with letters from everyone and there brother. Nobody KNOWS if they were really used by the players in question in a game or in 100 games. There is no certainty out there unless a player personally takes off the jersey and hands it to you after the game. Then YOU know the truth. Maybe I got screwed maybe I didn't. Let me say it again... I feel better about my purchase knowing there are 6200's in Papi's locker.


Thanks again for your input.
"how can ortiz wear road jerseys if they're sitting in his locker at fenway? and
why is ortiz keeping road jerseys in his locker at fenway instead of in the equipment room where all of the other player's road jerseys are kept?"

[bigtime59]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

Hypothesis: players are absolutely batsh*t about their equipment. I've got guys on my SOFTBALL team who don't like to wash their jerseys during a hot streak. Therefore, let us say that most players know exactly which jerseys/pants, etc. they are wearing at any given time.
Hypothesis: HOME jerseys are significantly more popular than road jerseys among collectors, and somewhat more popular than alternates. (I'm an exception to this rule, but this ain't about me.)
Known fact: players will wear more than one jersey during significant games. They've been doing it since at least 1995, when Cal Ripken wore at least two jerseys during the 2131 game.
Known fact: the team, not the player, owns the game jerseys issued to the player by the team, for game use. It has been standard practice to let players keep one jersey per season. (From what I've heard, it's just one jersey, not one of each style.)
Question: is there ANY evident wear on any of the Ortiz jerseys in question?
I doubt that a 6200-coded road jersey sitting in Ortiz' home locker would have been game worn, but I haven't taken a dip in the Jacuzzi in the Red Sox clubhouse in, well...ever.
I anxiously await the verdict on who has the biggest penis. Please keep me posted.
Thanks,
Mark Sutton
bigtime39@aol.com

[nesportspromotions]

Re: I think I got screwed on a 2006 David Ortiz Game Used Jersey

OK, I'm gettin out the ruler right now....

Ahh nevermind!


BUT good point. Game use... They are not crisp jerseys but there is no real wear on either. There are a couple of small stains but that's about it.

When Papi's buddy handed them to me the road was inside out and it kind of had a smelly feet/locker room odor. But that means nothing if they came from the Papi's locker. They should smell like a locker room if they came out of one, used or not.

Hypothesis: players are absolutely batsh*t about their equipment. I've got guys on my SOFTBALL team who don't like to wash their jerseys during a hot streak. Therefore, let us say that most players know exactly which jerseys/pants, etc. they are wearing at any given time.
Hypothesis: HOME jerseys are significantly more popular than road jerseys among collectors, and somewhat more popular than alternates. (I'm an exception to this rule, but this ain't about me.)
Known fact: players will wear more than one jersey during significant games. They've been doing it since at least 1995, when Cal Ripken wore at least two jerseys during the 2131 game.
Known fact: the team, not the player, owns the game jerseys issued to the player by the team, for game use. It has been standard practice to let players keep one jersey per season. (From what I've heard, it's just one jersey, not one of each style.)
Question: is there ANY evident wear on any of the Ortiz jerseys in question?
I doubt that a 6200-coded road jersey sitting in Ortiz' home locker would have been game worn, but I haven't taken a dip in the Jacuzzi in the Red Sox clubhouse in, well...ever.
I anxiously await the verdict on who has the biggest penis. Please keep me posted.
Thanks,
Mark Sutton
bigtime39@aol.com