103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

[Nathan]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

[quote=suicide_squeeze;125129]

That's absolutely ridiculous. If you want a comparison, it would be like the prosecution in the Simpson case standing up and saying "When OJ was notified of Nicole's death, he reacted in a manner that we believe to be unlike most people in that position. Therefore it is obvious that he is guilty of murdering her."

Nathan,

I don't want a comparison of anything.

I just know that, if I'm EVER involved in any criminal proceeding, I pray to GOD I have at least ONE of your type on the jury to insure my wrongful release.

Regards,

Steve

By the same token, I hope that if I'm ever wrongfully accused of anything that I never find you on the jury making sure I'm found guilty even if the entire case is built on the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence.

"Hmmmm, size 12 shoeprints were found near the crime scene, and the guy in cuffs wears size 12 shoes. Based on that alone, he's guilty."

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

[quote=Nathan;124671]

That's absolutely ridiculous. If you want a comparison, it would be like the prosecution in the Simpson case standing up and saying "When OJ was notified of Nicole's death, he reacted in a manner that we believe to be unlike most people in that position. Therefore it is obvious that he is guilty of murdering her."

Nathan,

I don't want a comparison of anything.

I just know that, if I'm EVER involved in any criminal proceeding, I pray to GOD I have at least ONE of your type on the jury to insure my wrongful release.

Regards,

Steve

[Nathan]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

YOU have your own suspicions about certain players, but aren't going to publicly post them?

They why bother commenting at all? That's what this post is about.

I refuse to take part in a baseless witch hunt by simply throwing names out there. The fact that someone honestly listed Todd Helton is hilarious; I stood next to and talked to a shirtless Helton after his 2001 season and all I'll say is this. If he were being provided with steroids and what I saw was the end result, I'd be finding the dealer and beating the crap out of him.

Look,I live in Los Angeles. To this day, I like Mike Piazza....I loved him when he was a Dodger....LOVED him, and I was heartbroken when he demanded the big bucks and the Dodgers sent him packing. I'm not going to waste my time copying and posting all of the articles about Mike Piazza and his "blatant obvious steroid use"......like from a VERY PROMINENT sports reporter for the Los Angeles Times who was told (and subsequently wrote about it in an article) specifically not to "slap Mike Piazza on the back, because you're liable to explode the seriously bad acne condition he has recently developed".......which they were silently referring to his condition caused from steroid use.

I'm not saying Piazza is clean or not. My point is, it's not as simple as looking at a couple of pictures or numbers from one or two seasons and being able to accurately say "Yeah, he's using."

I simply posted a few pictures. If anyone thinks they can transform themselves into a HULK like Mike became from simply working out in a weight room, then go for it. I got my forearms up to 19 1/2" to match my biceps, all at the tender age of 19, with no substance abuse of any kind. Hell, I didn't even take protein powders or anything, just regular vitamins was about it, and I ate a lot of protein (steaks, hamburgers, chicken, tuna, and milk products).

And through it all, I didn't have bulging "balls" for biceps like Mikie here.

Hmmmmmm.........makes one wonder.

Not really. There's an enormous amount of difference between the way that the body reacts for a top-level athlete versus a mid-level versus a low-level versus someone just getting back into the gym. Incredibly minor things like where a muscle attaches (a matter of millimeters) can have enormous consequences in terms of how much force is capable of being exerted. Genetics and exercise habits from an early age can play an enormous role in how quickly muscle tissue can recover, how effectively oxygen can be transported, and a myriad of other factors that combine to separate the AA ball player from an MLB All Star.

I naturally have extremely large biceps, particularly in my right arm (the muscle is obviously asymmetrical between my right and left arms). If I ever focused on an arm workout, the biceps would get enormous. On the other hand, I naturally have fairly small pectoralis major and no amount of bench press or pushups will change that.

On the other hand, a friend of mine from way back when was one of the few who could actually do a maximal workout every single day. I have no idea how, but he could recover just that quickly. That's why he ended up a state champion in track and had D-1 offers for two different sports and why I never got off the bench.

I know this much, with some opinions and comments I see here, it's no wonder we have juries that let guys like O. J. Simpson walk, even when the obvious is placed RIGHT underneath their noses.

That's absolutely ridiculous. If you want a comparison, it would be like the prosecution in the Simpson case standing up and saying "When OJ was notified of Nicole's death, he reacted in a manner that we believe to be unlike most people in that position. Therefore it is obvious that he is guilty of murdering her."

Let me ask you this. Did Hank Aaron's skills ever rise or fall, or was he performing at exactly the same level his entire career? (And no, I'm not accusing Hank of doing anything shady)

[chakes89]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

Good point

Maybe Bret just hit puberty a little later than the rest of the boys

[camarokids]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

Something you all need to remember. Most anyone can get big and bulky.

Now what and who you should question is when someone puts on 30 pounds of muscle in the off season.

Such as Jonny Gomes shows up in 2006, 30 pounds heavier of all muscle. The media and announcers were talking like he did a good thing, praising the guy.

Getting big can be done without steroids. It just takes a lot longer.....

[joelsabi]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

Bret Boone Photos for anyone that cares:

February 2000:





June 2001:

was watching a replay of a 2002 seattle mariners game where in the first inning of the game, mike cameron and brett boone hit two homeruns each in the same inning. the broadcaster looked it up and said it was the first time teammate ever did that.

[bigtruck260]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

Dave.......I totally agree with you.

But my man........please, be careful.

We all have to remember this......as HARD as it appears to be to a lot of the members here.....

.......We HAVE to accept that steroids were RAMPANT, and WIDELY used in MLB during all of the 1990's and first half of the 2000's....and most likely a good chunk (if not all) of the 1980's too.

That said, you HAVE to believe it was a known fact in the clubhouses.

That said again......you HAVE to somewhat consider the fact that a LOT of the players who made it to the bigs.....were already using to some small extent. It would be naive to think otherwise. I was HOPING A-Rod was clean.....now that I know he wasn't, I no longer believe any pro athlete with stellar stats during these years was.

You just may find that Albert used in 2000 (yes, pre-big leagues), 2001, 2002, 2003......(not ALL of those years, but in any one given year) or HGH (maybe due to faster recovery from an injury.....after all, he's had MORE than his fair share of those, and there are no tests to identify it) and once he gained the desired size he has, maybe he works hard to maintain it. But please, Dave, I love Albert as much as you do, trust me.....he is the BEST player in baseball......just don't make the mistake of throwing ALL of your eggs in ONE basket......you may one day get a bad bit of news that bursts your bubble.

The emphasis should all be to cleaning up the game NOW, and QUICKLY, with strict BLOOD-testing, and STRICT penalties. Then, we can save this great game we love, and get our heros back.

Thanks for the warning - but if you go back and read my original post, I said while he was in the MLB...

There is no question that his rise to greatness happened literally overnight...and the minors are a place where athletes are in serious need of disinguishing themselves. HOPEFULLY, Albert was not a juicer in the minors - but if he was, I am fairly confident that he left them behind when joining the big club in '01.

[chakes89]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

Bret Boone Photos for anyone that cares:

February 2000:





June 2001:

[chakes89]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

My Varitek pictures don't work now

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

As a Cards fan, I am flattered that folks (especially Yankee fans) think he is on the juice. he is a remarkable player who has been tearing up MLB since his rookie season. Not only is he a pure, line drive hitter for average, he occasionally lofts one into orbit.

If Albert wanted to sacrifice his average (which he won't), he could easily hit 50+ homers every season. Not only that, he's the most consistent slugger in all of baseball. He hit 34 homers in 2002 (after hitting 37 in his rookie season) and has a high of 49...so what?

Do you think he took Steriods in 2005 and 2008 (after they really started testing?) Those are the years he won the MVP award. If he did, he'd be pretty stupid...and if you live in STL and know/watch Albert every day, he's not only smart, but very concerned about the legacy he leaves in baseball.

If Albert took steroids while playing in the MLB - and it is proven, I might just quit watching baseball. Nobody is 100% innocent, I can concede that...but Albert would be one player that I would really have a hard time accepting that from.

Dave.......I totally agree with you.

But my man........please, be careful.

We all have to remember this......as HARD as it appears to be to a lot of the members here.....

.......We HAVE to accept that steroids were RAMPANT, and WIDELY used in MLB during all of the 1990's and first half of the 2000's....and most likely a good chunk (if not all) of the 1980's too.

That said, you HAVE to believe it was a known fact in the clubhouses.

That said again......you HAVE to somewhat consider the fact that a LOT of the players who made it to the bigs.....were already using to some small extent. It would be naive to think otherwise. I was HOPING A-Rod was clean.....now that I know he wasn't, I no longer believe any pro athlete with stellar stats during these years was.

You just may find that Albert used in 2000 (yes, pre-big leagues), 2001, 2002, 2003......(not ALL of those years, but in any one given year) or HGH (maybe due to faster recovery from an injury.....after all, he's had MORE than his fair share of those, and there are no tests to identify it) and once he gained the desired size he has, maybe he works hard to maintain it. But please, Dave, I love Albert as much as you do, trust me.....he is the BEST player in baseball......just don't make the mistake of throwing ALL of your eggs in ONE basket......you may one day get a bad bit of news that bursts your bubble.

The emphasis should all be to cleaning up the game NOW, and QUICKLY, with strict BLOOD-testing, and STRICT penalties. Then, we can save this great game we love, and get our heros back.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

You weren't kidding about his legs

Some pics:

JUNE 15, 2004:



OCTOBER 15, 2004:

GOOD homework, chakes89.......the guy had a MOSTER build that just wasn't natural.....there are many more pics that show him from different angles that just boggles the mind. Notice the shoulder size too (in reference to the general 'thickness').....the "swollen-appearing" arm....

Obvious user......IMHO.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

I agree with cjclong. This entire thread is the absolute height of absurdity...."103 names haven't been revealed, so let's make baseless accusations publicly."

As far as I'm concerned, the only people who have any room to speculate are those who have done the following:
1) Taken and passed classes in endocrinology and physiology
2) Taken and passed classes in exercise science and related courses
3) Have closely studied the science of baseball, specifically as it pertains to park effects, rule changes, and trends over time

From my standpoint, no one outside of that realm has any room to be speculating over who took based on some pictures (since your lack of knowledge abuot the basic subjects condemns you) or based off of arbitrary and cherry-picked numbers (which demonstrates a lack of knowledge about the game).

And I will step up and place myself at the top of the list of people who have met all three requirements. I also will not speculate about who I believe has or has not been 'roiding up. Certainly I have my own suspicions about certain players, but I'm not going to publicly post them.

On the plus side, this thread has given me a good list of those who speak without knowledge.

YOU have your own suspicions about certain players, but aren't going to publicly post them?

They why bother commenting at all? That's what this post is about.

Look,I live in Los Angeles. To this day, I like Mike Piazza....I loved him when he was a Dodger....LOVED him, and I was heartbroken when he demanded the big bucks and the Dodgers sent him packing. I'm not going to waste my time copying and posting all of the articles about Mike Piazza and his "blatant obvious steroid use"......like from a VERY PROMINENT sports reporter for the Los Angeles Times who was told (and subsequently wrote about it in an article) specifically not to "slap Mike Piazza on the back, because you're liable to explode the seriously bad acne condition he has recently developed".......which they were silently referring to his condition caused from steroid use.

I simply posted a few pictures. If anyone thinks they can transform themselves into a HULK like Mike became from simply working out in a weight room, then go for it. I got my forearms up to 19 1/2" to match my biceps, all at the tender age of 19, with no substance abuse of any kind. Hell, I didn't even take protein powders or anything, just regular vitamins was about it, and I ate a lot of protein (steaks, hamburgers, chicken, tuna, and milk products).

And through it all, I didn't have bulging "balls" for biceps like Mikie here.

Hmmmmmm.........makes one wonder.

I know this much, with some opinions and comments I see here, it's no wonder we have juries that let guys like O. J. Simpson walk, even when the obvious is placed RIGHT underneath their noses.

Just my two copper Lincolns....


By the way....... cjmedina1 .........I TOTALLY agree on Brett Boone...... that ALSO is a no brainer, you could see it by looking at his body changes.

Regards,

Steve

[suave1477]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

I'm just gonna let the pics do the talking........and by the way, I'm a HUGE Dodger fan........but Mike Piazza.......well, just look........

I am not a Piazza fan but the farhest stretch of the imagination. But I do think your truly jumping the gun on these photos. Showin photos of Piazza getting bigger over years is not that big of a deal.

I used to work out with these 2 guys, I did it more for shape and getting my body toned. While the other 2 did it for getting really built and cut up.

They both in 1 year went from scrawny nothings to putting on some huge gun arms, flat cut stomachs, and big chests - they both would do about double the work out I was doing and would push there bodies to do about double the weight. With out and type of PED's just pure working hard in the gym and running every morning before work, in the park.

So my point is your showing pics of Piazza over at least a few year span (Which he was with the Dodgers for over 6 seasons) and his arms are just about the size of my friends arms.

So what your showing is really not any kind of implication of him doing anything.

[cjmedina1]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

Luis Gonzalez 57 homeruns in 2001
and who could forget the power hitter
Shawn Green 49 Homeruns in 2001
followed by
Todd Helton 49 homeruns in 2001
all who seemed to go into history as power hitters?

I would add Brett Boone 19 Homeruns in 2000
37 Homeruns in 2001

[Nathan]

Re: 103 not named that tested positive for steroids...

I agree with cjclong. This entire thread is the absolute height of absurdity...."103 names haven't been revealed, so let's make baseless accusations publicly."

As far as I'm concerned, the only people who have any room to speculate are those who have done the following:
1) Taken and passed classes in endocrinology and physiology
2) Taken and passed classes in exercise science and related courses
3) Have closely studied the science of baseball, specifically as it pertains to park effects, rule changes, and trends over time

From my standpoint, no one outside of that realm has any room to be speculating over who took based on some pictures (since your lack of knowledge abuot the basic subjects condemns you) or based off of arbitrary and cherry-picked numbers (which demonstrates a lack of knowledge about the game).

And I will step up and place myself at the top of the list of people who have met all three requirements. I also will not speculate about who I believe has or has not been 'roiding up. Certainly I have my own suspicions about certain players, but I'm not going to publicly post them.

On the plus side, this thread has given me a good list of those who speak without knowledge.