O/T: H&B liable for player's death

[STLHAMMER32]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

These are totally unrelated scenarios. All of these household objects have other uses besides murdering people. If someone beat his wife over the head with a baseball bat, then I would not hold the company responsible. However, baseball bats' primary purpose is to hit balls with. This comes with considerable danger. When the primary purpose of your product puts people in harm's way, which baseball bats do, then you have a problem. Therefore, H & B needs to be held liable and needs to create a safer product.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but wouldn't this statement apply to using just about any object...it would be the balls fault as much as the bat..the ball is too hard etc..I missed the nail hit myself with a hammer....hammer is too hard..wait I'm goin to sue the manufacturer of the nail becaue it wasn't big enough....

You hear about burglars suing sunlight companies when the fall through the roof or suing the owner for improper stairway installation...this is right up there..pure insanity!!!

[brianborsch]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Gang,

Frik is what she is. Her views don't make sense. This is my last post on the matter as I feel that 99.9% of this entire board agrees that LVS is not liable.
Let it go to appeals and lets see what happens. This world is going to hell in a hand basket and this case is a direct example.

Those parents should take some responsibility. And the courts better make sure they don't get their grubby hands on the money for their own enjoyment. They should be forced to put towards education on the dangers of baseball bats! Ha!

MORONS!

[frikativ54]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

SERIOUSLY???

Let's take this statement to heart... we should make it open season to sue:

ANY manufacturer of KITCHEN knives (they are used to kill people daily)

ANY manufacturer of tire irons and the like as they are used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of candle sticks or fireplace irons - again, used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of rope - used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of plastic bag - used to kill people

These are totally unrelated scenarios. All of these household objects have other uses besides murdering people. If someone beat his wife over the head with a baseball bat, then I would not hold the company responsible. However, baseball bats' primary purpose is to hit balls with. This comes with considerable danger. When the primary purpose of your product puts people in harm's way, which baseball bats do, then you have a problem. Therefore, H & B needs to be held liable and needs to create a safer product.

[frikativ54]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

So........"positive change" to you would mean if someone hits a Big Bertha 4-iron on their second shot of a 425 yard par four hole on a golf course, and a guy on another hole who is running accross the fairway to pick up an errant drive from his hole, takes a doinker to the temple which kills him.......Callaway Corporation should be sued and held liable?

There's no comparison. It is a known fact that a pitcher needs more reaction time than what he was given in this situation. If that's the case, bat companies should make bats where the maximum ball velocity coming off the bat, given the distance from the batter to the pitcher, would make it so the pitcher would have enough time to react. Then, taking those precautions, the company should not be liable. However, no precautions have been taken, given what is a dangerous product. Just because H & B was found to be responsible, that doesn't mean that the league also shouldn't take some responsibility.

Excuse my harshness......but are you mental? WHAT IS WRONG with your REASONING ability, frik??? Your "different point of view" is different all right.......it's "different" from anything and everything that resembles logic, intelligence, and common sense. You need to develop some cognitive skills, because somewhere along the line a wire came undone from the back side of your neck. You're missing the part of "knowledge" that would "connect" with what a reasonable person would conclude when presented with a circumstance that needed logical thought.

.......like 9 of the jurors who sat on the jury of the case this thread is about.

We're going to hell, people. We have em among us!

Now I'm mental?!?! Seriously? I just can't believe that I am being called crazy for what is just a difference of opinion. My opinions do not cohere with yours. Last time I checked, that's not a sufficient condition to be committed to an insane asylum. The world wouldn't be what it is without legitimate differences in perspective.

Someone who is mental would say that the ball was taken over by space aliens off the bat, and that's why the kid died. And the kid was at fault, because Jesus was whispering in his ear that some squirrel was gonna get pregnant and nurse her babies outside of my apartment. Therefore, the kid was distracted and couldn't field the ball and died.

You should hear people talk who are actually crazy. That is the kind of stuff they say - just read someone last night on a local TV station's blog talking about voice to skull weapons. But I am presenting a perfectly logical argument, which is informed by my concerns about businesses not taking enough responsibility for their products' safety.

[xpress34]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

The bottom line is that I hate to see businesses given a free pass, when their products do harm to people. That is a perfectly reasonable position.

SERIOUSLY???

Let's take this statement to heart... we should make it open season to sue:

ANY manufacturer of KITCHEN knives (they are used to kill people daily)

ANY manufacturer of tire irons and the like as they are used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of candle sticks or fireplace irons - again, used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of rope - used to kill people

ANY manufacturer of ANY type of plastic bag - used to kill people

Do I REALLY need to go on???

I guess we should sue ALL of the MLB players (past and present) including your beloved Jeff Bagwell as they have ALL at some point and time used a baseball bat (wood or aluminum does not matter - again, refer to the Mike Coolbaugh death) for hitting balls into the stands that have injured fans - or maybe the fans should sue MLB and the Players and EVERY bat manufacturer...

Your reasoning is truly unreasonable simply by the can or worms - or as another put it, the 'Pandora's Box' it would open.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Let me get this straight: I don't think the same way as you do, so that is grounds for saying I have serious problems? In my mind, it is ridiculous to tell someone who has disagreements on the nature of product liability that she somehow has "serious issues".

The bottom line is that I hate to see businesses given a free pass, when their products do harm to people. That is a perfectly reasonable position. Aluminum bats are unsafe in a number of ways; therefore, H & B should be held at least partially responsible for the young man's death.

This is a perfectly reasonable position. You don't have to personally attack people who come to a different conclusion, weighing the evidence. In my mind, America is only becoming a better country in which to live - and holding businesses accountable for their products is a great thing.

Hopefully, in my lifetime, we can continue to see positive change in America.

So........"positive change" to you would mean if someone hits a Big Bertha 4-iron on their second shot of a 425 yard par four hole on a golf course, and a guy on another hole who is running accross the fairway to pick up an errant drive from his hole, takes a doinker to the temple which kills him.......Callaway Corporation should be sued and held liable?

Excuse my harshness......but are you mental? WHAT IS WRONG with your REASONING ability, frik??? Your "different point of view" is different all right.......it's "different" from anything and everything that resembles logic, intelligence, and common sense. You need to develop some cognitive skills, because somewhere along the line a wire came undone from the back side of your neck. You're missing the part of "knowledge" that would "connect" with what a reasonable person would conclude when presented with a circumstance that needed logical thought.

.......like 9 of the jurors who sat on the jury of the case this thread is about.

We're going to hell, people. We have em among us!

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

What fix would you like, complete privatization?

Back to the topic at hand, am I the only one here who thinks that H & B should pay damages? Baseball bats are dangerous, especially in the hands of strong young men. Why not hold the manufacturer responsible for a commodity that kills?

anyone want to make a list of random objects that kill people?
i imagine someone has killed themselves with a fork. thats go sue the fork makers
a lot of people have been killed by gm/dodge thats sue them
im sorry that the poor family lost their son, but its not any reason to sue someone, it was an accident. my wife is in the medical field and every time i here the word law suit i kind of get a little pissed. granted some lawsuits are needed but this instance isnt one of those cases.

[frikativ54]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

This is a great example of why America is going to hell.

To date, I have always given you the benefit of the doubt, and have even stuck up for you in your strange views. But you obviously have some serious issues other than a thyroid problem. You have "reasoning" problems.

Let me get this straight: I don't think the same way as you do, so that is grounds for saying I have serious problems? In my mind, it is ridiculous to tell someone who has disagreements on the nature of product liability that she somehow has "serious issues".

The bottom line is that I hate to see businesses given a free pass, when their products do harm to people. That is a perfectly reasonable position. Aluminum bats are unsafe in a number of ways; therefore, H & B should be held at least partially responsible for the young man's death.

This is a perfectly reasonable position. You don't have to personally attack people who come to a different conclusion, weighing the evidence. In my mind, America is only becoming a better country in which to live - and holding businesses accountable for their products is a great thing.

Hopefully, in my lifetime, we can continue to see positive change in America.

[MLB_Authentic]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Guns don't kill people, husbands that come home early do.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Your reductio ad absurdum ignores my very legitimate point. Of course, I am not going to suggest that playing baseball be banned. However, there has to be some accountability for the death of this young man. The guy died using one of H & B's products. Wouldn't it make sense for the company to be liable for a death incurred using its bats?

I think the verdict is spot on. Aluminum bat manufacturers have known for years that their products can and have killed people. Yet, they keep producing them and ignoring the problem. Maybe this verdict will serve as a wakeup call to H & B - that the status quo in regard to aluminum bats is not okay, and that they will have to manufacture a safer product.




Are you serious? These parents lost a son, and you have the nerve to call them money-grubbing idiots, whose son deserved to die? The reality is that no amount of money can replace a son - ever. I truly feel sorry for the family, and even sorrier that they have to read crap suggesting that they had it in for them. Have a little sympathy for the family.

This is a great example of why America is going to hell.

We have.....um.......people, like nomo referred to, that have trouble negotiating rational thought as they stumble through their brain waves as they try to evaluate reason.

Frik, YOU feel H & B should be penialized because some player, at the end of his rope in going as far as he would have ever gone in competitive baseball, pharmiceutically-stimulated and suffering from a serious medical condition, throws a pitch that didn't fool the hitter?

Are you for real?

To date, I have always given you the benefit of the doubt, and have even stuck up for you in your strange views. But you obviously have some serious issues other than a thyroid problem. You have "reasoning" problems.

These last point of views of yours that you so preciously chose to sahre and bless the board with has done a number on me.

I will state this in general terms......if the other intelligent and well thought out, well reasoned posts on this thread aren't enough to make a reasonable person understand this retarded jury verdict is just that......then the person isn't reasonable.

This verdict WILL BE overturned in an appellate court!!!!

[xpress34]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

A hit back with a wood bat could kill someone as well. Would H&B be exempt from a lawsuit if one of their wooden bats caused someone to die?

Brian -

I mentioned this fact a few posts ago in reference to Mike Coolbaugh.

If H&B followed the rules set in place to make a legal bat, then they should not be the one liable. The leagues that allow the alluminum bats should be. Plain and simple.

EXACTLY!!! Where is the LAWSUIT against the leagues that AASK for this type of equipment and allow this DEADLY item to be used???

People need to take responsibility for their decisions.

I get the feeling that Frik is one of those people who believe that Sears and other needed to put stickers on Lawn Mowers so that Joe Idiot couldn't sue them when he cuts his hand off because he stuck it UNDER a running mower... and I'm sure she supported the stupid woman who sued McDonald's for the coffee being too hot!!! And that jury still awarded her a big payday AFTER she admitted she had the lid OFF, the cup BETWEEN her legs, DRIVING and trying to add sugar and cream! REALLY???

CLEAN THE GENE POOL!!! Darwin had a Point!!! Survival of the Fittest!!!

- Chris

[brianborsch]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for the family in this situation. You seriously think that there is anyone who thinks that playing baseball is safe? A hit back with a wood bat could kill someone as well. Would H&B be exempt from a lawsuit if one of their wooden bats caused someone to die?

If H&B followed the rules set in place to make a legal bat, then they should not be the one liable. The leagues that allow the alluminum bats should be. Plain and simple.

People need to take responsibility for their decisions. Either their son, or the parents, or both decided that he play in the league. For them it was a bad choice as their son was affected by a freak accident that doesn't happen often.

Les, it's time to get off the righteous high-horse and come back to reality. This is an example of how messed up our legal system is right now, and how stupid society is.

If anyone thinks that swinging any type of baseball bat is safe, then they deserve to be incarcerated.

[frikativ54]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Les, if you don't see how sad the country is, and only getting sadder. That this is another representation of what is wrong with america. I can't help you.

IMO, this country is getting so much better. Medical advances, women's equality, gay rights, increasing secularization, etc. I am so lucky I wasn't born 50 years ago...

[frikativ54]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Ummm NO.

Why not just get rid of the game of baseball all together? Brilliant Idea Les. Or better yet, lets make mlb and ALL baseball levels change to wiffle balls and wiffle ball bats. You certainly can't get hurt that way.

Your reductio ad absurdum ignores my very legitimate point. Of course, I am not going to suggest that playing baseball be banned. However, there has to be some accountability for the death of this young man. The guy died using one of H & B's products. Wouldn't it make sense for the company to be liable for a death incurred using its bats?

I think the verdict is spot on. Aluminum bat manufacturers have known for years that their products can and have killed people. Yet, they keep producing them and ignoring the problem. Maybe this verdict will serve as a wakeup call to H & B - that the status quo in regard to aluminum bats is not okay, and that they will have to manufacture a safer product.

The fact of the matter is, the kid was practically an adult in an adult league. Everyone knows the risk. You'd have to, otherwise you are a complete IDIOT. The kids parents are a bunch of idiots. I feel 0% for them, because of the way they are handling this case. A bunch of money grubbing idiots. It may sound harsh, but thank God their child passed. One less of their genes out there to create these situations.

Are you serious? These parents lost a son, and you have the nerve to call them money-grubbing idiots, whose son deserved to die? The reality is that no amount of money can replace a son - ever. I truly feel sorry for the family, and even sorrier that they have to read crap suggesting that they had it in for them. Have a little sympathy for the family.

[xpress34]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Back to the topic at hand, am I the only one here who thinks that H & B should pay damages? Baseball bats are dangerous, especially in the hands of strong young men. Why not hold the manufacturer responsible for a commodity that kills?

Really??? Hmm... let's see - the LEAGUE determines what size and types of bats are APPROPRIATE to 'raise the competitive level' (see my previous post with info taken directly from their website)...

If the players are not ready to compete at that level and with the type of equipment deemed appropriate by the league, they should not be playing period.

ESPECIALLY a kid with a KNOWN Medical Condition for which he was taking medication at the time of his death!!! It's quite possible that with a High Blood Pressure condition that his meds were thinning his blood to help lower the pressure and that the same hit to another player without his condition may not have resulted in death. I'm not saying it absolutley would not have, but it is possible.

And if you think that the manufacturer should be held responsible, then you MUST think Rawlings. Easton, Wilson (whoever made the BALL which was approved by their league) must also be held responsible.

And you MUST also believe that whoever manufactured the WOOD bat and the baseball that killed the Rockies Minor League Coach (Coolbaugh) in 2007 should also be prosecuted. Hell, he wasn't the one who threw the ball or hit the ball - he was standing in the 1st base box almost 90 feet from home plate (20+ feet further than the pitching mound) and the ball hit his neck (off of a WOOD bat) with such force that it ruptured his Jugular vein in his neck and he bled out internally.

If you really believe that, then you probably want nets strung all the way down the baselines to protect the fans - like hockey gave into after the little girl's death a few years ago - and that EVERYONE on the field should wear protective gear or they should use softer bats and softer balls... oh wait!!! There's already a game with a softer ball - it's called SOFTBALL.

And as far as all of the other politcal crap - first let me say I'm an INDEPENDENT - but I find it saddening that after the record is set straight about the GOP controlling 6 of Bush's 8 years, the ONLY RW Conservatives can do is jump onto the bandwagon about the current Health Bill??? If you can't back up your statements any better than that, please quit being a Rush Limbaugh. I'm done with the political bashing here...

- Chris