O/T: H&B liable for player's death

[Fnazxc0114]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

anybody ever wonder why tort reform is such a great idea?

[xpress34]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Wow. Simply unbelievable. I have to agree with the others who have stated, "Why not sue the ball manufacturer? Or the batter who HIT the ball?"

While I am NOT a lawyer, I did take some law classes while in College and if the parent's are going to sue the Bat Manufacturer for not 'warning them' of the 'inherent dangers', there should be PLENTY of other suits under TORT law. The pitcher himself could be blamed under TORT law which only requires proof that you 'committed the act' the act that caused the injury - not that you intended to cause injury. Therefore, by throwing the pitch he chose, he didn't intend for the batter to hit a liner back to the mound, but it happened. Then the same law could be used against the batter who didn't intend to hit the pitcher, but by the shear act of batting the ball could now be held liable... YES, I know it's a stretch - but no more so than suing the bat maker!!!

I think in the comments that BMH talked about that were posted in response to the story, there are definately some things that LVS should be able to use to appeal:

"for failure to place warnings on the product"

So if i took a baseball bat and hit some1 in the face with it.....clearly i am not at fault seeing as there are no warnings on the bat......that is a good defense!

The judge is setting a precedent in this case, and the above statement isn't a far stretch for some defendant to use - and WIN - a case after beating someone to death. it wasn't HIS fault - it must have been the bat.

Now, all that being said, it's absolutely horrible and tragic that something like this happened to that boy and his family.............but, I'm guessing that the reason the family is not suing the American Legion league is that they signed a "waiver" exempting them from liability...............but they want to sue the bat manufacturer?

I would have to imagine (and again, not a far stretch) that the League distanced themselves from this case (or at least their lawyer did) because of the 'waiver' and I wouldn't be surprised if the league's lawyer didn't at least give the family the idea to pursue LVS

Hello to all I was one of those 12 jurors. It would of took only 8 out of 12 jurors to render a verdict. As for my vote it was NO across the board. The proof wasn't there to say yes to any of the accounts. I read and reread and slept on this and still needed more proof to vote for the Patch family. To me this was a fluke accident and they will happen in sports. The foreperson wanted everyone to compromise and vote yes so the Patch's could be given a award. They just made money off the tragic death of their son. I hope they sleep well at night knowing this. Was it once mentioned which was in the medical reports that Brandon had High Blood Pressure, that he was on Medication for it. That he came almost 1,500ft above sea level to Helena from Mile City, that it was in the 5th ending. All this could of had a factor in his reaction time. I hope H & B appeals this and I hope they win. What next Patch's the ball company how about the kid who swung the bat for murder. To all don't rank me with the 9 jurors who voted yes and remember 2 other jurors voted no also.

WOW!!! Do you think any of this was disclosed in court??? If it's true, then the parents should be held liable for 'child endangerment' for even allowing their son to play ball at all - 1,500 ft above sea level or not!

Brian (BMH) - I'm so sorry that your family's company is having to go through all of this and wish you and yours the best of luck as you move forward through appeals - I'm guessing that is coming.

As far as the Patch family - I do feel for you for your loss. I have a 16 year old son who I adore, but - do you really feel good about looking for a 'villain' in your son's tragic and accidental death?

And one more piece of info - Brandon patch was 18 at the time of his death - this isn't LITTLE LEAGUE Ball - this was AMERICAN LEGION Ball... at 18, he could have been playing college ball or even been developing in the pro leagues already... if this had happened there, would you have sued the college or the team???

It had been made out like he was a young child... here is a picture of the current team:



And there Roster and size stats:

Name Height Weight Class Shawn Elliott 6'0" 200 2008 Chance Kale 5'7" 230 2009 Jordan Bryant 6'0" 190 2009 Logan Klanke 5'7" 160 2009 Michael Poppert 6'0" 165 2009 Kyle Gudmunson 6'1" 185 2009 Kasey Tharp 5'9" 165 2009 Han Chiang Chang 5'11" 160 2009 Tate Wickham 6'1" 160 2010 Garrett Askin 6'1" 190 2010 Bobby Jackson 5'7" 165 2010 Conner Brown 5'11" 170 2010 Tyler Harris 6'0" 175 2011 Jonah Bergman 5'10" 185 2011
These kids are all 5'7" and up and between 165 and 230 lbs!!! Some of them are bigger than college and pro players!!!

BTW - The Mavericks have been playing as a team since 1929!!! There's some history for you BMH... I'm sure that in all of that time - 80 years - that NO ONE in Miles City has ever realized that there was an inherent danger in playing baseball!!!

Per the MCYBA web page:


It is the Mission of the Miles City Youth Baseball Association to provide recreation for children 5 to 19 years of age, foster good sportsmanship, and the necessity for team unity while developing the skills specific to the game of baseball.
Competitive levels shall increase by age and league to assure all children have the ability to develop the necessary skills to participate at the highest level attainable

I'm sure the Patch's had no interest in their son developing his skills to reach the 'highest level attainable'... which is why he was unprepared when this event happened. It was clearly the bat's fault...

Sorry for the rant, but this case just turns my stomach.

- Chris

[brianborsch]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

It really is too bad the world is the way it is. I also LOVE HB. They have so much history and their bats got class. I hope they can recover from this financial setback.
Rather than say this to the family, I am saying it to LVS: "I am sorry for your loss in this matter." I really hope there is a way fro this wrong to be righted.

[nomo121]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I am with you. The fact the family sued H&B for this is Bull$**t! I feel no sympathy for them now. It doesn't make sense to sue the bat company. They should sue the league for allowing that type of bat to be used. And if H&B is sued, the child who swung the bat should be tried for manslaughter as it was not premeditated so it couldn't be murder.

This should be appealed. Money grubbing people get no mercy.

Maybe they don't get mercy, but unfortunately they get 800k. I hate to see this happen to a company like HB. I've always loved the LS. In college I loved the Omaha Gold. Still have one. Now that college is past me, still love to swing a LS. Got some maple ones from the Tx Rangers this year.

As I said, the world is full of idiots. Ruger has to put, this weapon may be dangerous, on the side of their guns. Just disappointing. Hopefully HB will be able to appeal, but its a communist world.

[brianborsch]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I am with you. The fact the family sued H&B for this is Bull$**t! I feel no sympathy for them now. It doesn't make sense to sue the bat company. They should sue the league for allowing that type of bat to be used. And if H&B is sued, the child who swung the bat should be tried for manslaughter as it was not premeditated so it couldn't be murder.

This should be appealed. Money grubbing people get no mercy.

[CampWest]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I'm scared for the precedent it sets for corporate liability of any company/manufacturer. Seriously, do we need to start putting choking hazards on food products? There has to be a boundary of a "reasonable person" to understand the dangers that exist in everything people choose to do.

Unfortunately, they didn't realize what that vote would do to companies producing baseball bats.

[PwKw13]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I know for many leagues and teams there's a cost factor involved (wood bats need to be constantly replaced). Can't a less "lively" standard be set for aluminum/metal/composite bats? It doesn't seem like the question should be wood vs. aluminum but how fast should the ball come off any bat. I'm sure that a metal bat could be produced where the ball leaves the bat at the same speed as wood (It may be just a matter of pulling out the inventory and going back to the specs from the 1970s and '80s). The problem is that the consumer wants the bat that gives them the most distance, so the leagues need to be the ones that set the limits.

[BMH]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Guys, thanks for the support. I've taken the rest of the week off and haven't been in contact with work. I need some time to unwind from the trip.

As for what we're going to do, I don't know. I know there are several options on the table, but I can't discuss them at this time. There are some interesting comments on the USA Today site under the story.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...-lawsuit_N.htm


If that person was an actual juror, it does tell us why they voted the way they did. We suspected they might have a good chance at a sympathy vote and if this person is for real that's what it is. Unfortunately, they didn't realize what that vote would do to companies producing baseball bats.

[CampWest]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Brian, Truly sorry for the verdict... Where does H&B go from here? There is now a legal precedent. Are you considering mass recalls to place warning stickers on your bats already in the hands of consumers? Would doing so ruin any chance for an appeal - as a de facto admission? Are you discussing potential changes for future production?

I am stunned by this, hopefully there will be an appeal. The family should have filed a claim against the batter for not swinging softer. Had he not swung so hard, maybe there would have not been an accident... Or had he swung later and hit the ball to the opposite field.

Amazing. Ridiculous. I hope for Nabisco's sake I dont choke on an Oreo... because they have no choking hazard warnings. The risk of corporate liability is growing to dangerous extremes with juries like this.

Best regards and know that rational people support you and your company.

I've spent the past two weeks in Helena, Montana. I must say it is something I never want to do again. I truly feel for the Patch family, their loss is something I cannot ever imagine nor do I ever want to go through it. I hope this judgment will give them some closure.

On a related note, since July 25, 2003 there have been three other players killed in baseball. One by a ball tossed that hit him in the chest and the other two were killed by balls batted from wooden bats. I'm now waiting for those lawsuits because of a "failure to warn".

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Most have already stated the obvious, but BRIAN.....My man......you MUST appeal this verdict. This is absolutely assinine.

Nomo is correct....the average person is an imbecile anymore. Until they have someone fill their ears with "SUE THEM!" Then, all of a sudden, they become real smart.

I am going to part with you all on the feeling sorry for the family because their son died. I am not going to be politically correct and tell you that it's horrible and I just can't imagine how their lives must be now. My feelings for them left immediately after reading they sued the bat manufacturer. They appear to be a family of s#!tty character, and the kind that is bringing our country to it's knees. Why must everyone in the world be "paid" for a tragic accicent when they lose a loved one.....a family member......when it's obviously no fault of anyones? Accidents happen.....if you don't want to take risks, don't reproduce. Don't participate in anything in life. Just stay home, lock the doors, and minimize your exposure to danger.......like walking out your front door, ever.

Or.....live a life, and hope for the best.

Did Nick Buoniconti (I know I spelled his name wrong) sue the college his son was playing for when his son broke his neck playing football, paralysing him for life?

Juries are righteous in principle......right up until you are seated next to three "Jethro's" and a "Wilma". Freakin idiots. Look no further than the O.J. trial to illustrate that point.

Sorry for venting, but this type of lawsuit, as tragic and sad as the event was that led to it, is simply wrong.

APPEAL it.

[CampWest]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I was just thinking... Didnt Smith & Wesson have a lawsuit dismissed on grounds of frivolous nature??? As I recall they had gotten sued because, guess what, bullets are dangerous. But the funny part is they dont make bullets. They just make guns that shoot bullets. Apparently they were sued because the handgun did not have sufficient warning that injury and death could result from firing a bullet from it.

[CampWest]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

Why do people not hold themselves personally responsible for their own well being? Especially when participating in potentially dangerous activities...

Ya know, I went skydiving once... And I never saw a warning on the parachute that said "If this fails to open, you may be injured - possibly fatally". Perhaps I should consider a lawsuit since there was not proper warning. My common sense was not astute enough for me to discern the dangers without that written warning. [/ end sarcasm]

[nomo121]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I hope my previous rant wasn't taken out of the fact, I do feel for the family. But blaming a bat company for its bats being dangerous is silly. Its too bad folks can't see that, i.e. the jury. Hit a ball with anything can potentially cause a dangerous outcome. Why not make pitchers wear batting helmets. Just hopefully not the bobblehead style ones offered by rawlings.

But, Lousiville has the money and people will chase. I played in a league that wanted the aluminum bats, that while that did hit a speedy ball, they dont shatter and randomly leave large chunks or sharp chards raining down on players...

Wasn't it a wooden bat that hit a ball that killed the poor coach in the minors a few years ago?

[BMH]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

I've spent the past two weeks in Helena, Montana. I must say it is something I never want to do again. I truly feel for the Patch family, their loss is something I cannot ever imagine nor do I ever want to go through it. I hope this judgment will give them some closure.

On a related note, since July 25, 2003 there have been three other players killed in baseball. One by a ball tossed that hit him in the chest and the other two were killed by balls batted from wooden bats. I'm now waiting for those lawsuits because of a "failure to warn".

[nomo121]

Re: O/T: H&B liable for player's death

These things pass b/c jurys have a large ratio of stupid people on them. That's why so many weird outcomes in court occur. Most people are idiots in the world. That's why a coffee cup says, caution may be hot, why alcohol warns of its ability in impair, and guns come w/ warnings may be dangerous. B/c the world is filled w/ mostly stupid people. We cater to the stupid, rather than attempt to elevate to the more intelligent. This is why I hate jury duty. Watching some mouth breather trying to figure out the complex statements offered in court, b/c obviously folks don't get the simple ones. Such as, hot coffee may burn, a sport where you hit a 100mph ball w/ a metal rod may be dangerous, and why drinking and driving might cause problems. instead, we blame Mcdonalds, a bat company, and the bar that served the idiot the beer.

But things will get better, right?

Kyle, do you live in ftw? They have wood bat leagues here? I've seen the ft cats stuff you mentioned once.