GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

[sox83cubs84]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

It's possible that the jersey, if indeed, a number changed, recycled piece, was from 1982-83. Two players wore 35 that year: Larry Kenon and Larry Spriggs.

Rudy: I have seen the collar tag in early 1980s Rawlings jerseys (Bulls and Rockets), but the ones I can remember usually had some type of tail tag also. Not saying the jersey being analyzed is wrong, but saying that it would be unusual.

Dave M.
Chicago area

Rudy:

I checked Getty and found a photo attributed to a December 1982 Bulls-Bucks game in Milwaukee. Reggie Theus is shown in the photo, and the numeric font on his 1982-83 jersey matches the font on this Jordan shirt. The Bulls numeric font changed in the 1983-84 season. It seems odd, though, that a number changed shirt from 1984 preseson wouldn't have the normal numeric font for that time frame, unless the number change was made back in 1982-83, and the name on back that is imprinted underneath Jordan's is someone other than the 2 #35 players mentioned in my first post above. Looks like some more digging needs to be done.

Dave Miedema
Chicago area

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

a few thoughts

- the numbers are atypical. to me, it suggests they may not have been applied by rawlings. perhaps the bulls had exhibition jerseys modified locally because of a need for a faster turnaround than they'd normally have for regular season shirts and this local shop screwed up the numbers. i think the incorrect numbers somewhat bolster the idea of it being an exhibition shirt.

- it's clear that by jordan's first road game, the bulls already had a jersey with the correct number fonts for him.

- i'm curious if bidders will be bidding on this shirt as if it's jordan's first regular season gamer or as if it's an exhibition shirt. GFC previously auctioned off a 1984 jordan home gamer, with bulls loa, and it sold for a little over $55k. REA sold a 1984 jordan road gamer, including shorts, that rated a MEARS A10, for over $70k. oddly enough REA also auctioned off a 1984 jordan home gamer, also including shorts, also a MEARS A10 and it sold for almost $50k. not sure why there was a $20k difference between the road and home uniforms in the REA auctions. should be interesting to see how collectors interpret this GFC jersey. any guesses as to the value of it?

rudy.

[sportscentury]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

I know what you're saying, but no one is going to confuse a practice jersey with a game jersey. Sure it's pre-season, but it's still a game. There's a crowd, refs, box score, etc.

I'd rather have the jersey he was wearing when he made his first basket in a pre-season game, than the jersey he was wearing when he made his first shot at Bulls practice.

Greg, no question about it. The first regular season jersey is worth way more than his first exhibition game jersey, but his first exhibition game jersey is worth way more than his first practice jersey. I think nearly all collectors would agree with this. I just think of exhibition jerseys as a special type of practice jersey in that they are worn when the players/teams are practicing for what counts.

[sox83cubs84]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

It's possible that the jersey, if indeed, a number changed, recycled piece, was from 1982-83. Two players wore 35 that year: Larry Kenon and Larry Spriggs.

Rudy: I have seen the collar tag in early 1980s Rawlings jerseys (Bulls and Rockets), but the ones I can remember usually had some type of tail tag also. Not saying the jersey being analyzed is wrong, but saying that it would be unusual.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

Rudy
There is no doubt that you have proven the Grey Flannel Jordan was not used in his first regular season game.
I will not debate the practice jersey vs. pre-season jersey argument. It's a matter of personal taste and finances. But, I don't have the finances.
ALL BOGUS JORDAN JERSEYS HAVE MESSED IT UP FOR THE REAL ONES! So, I believe that all Jordan jerseys are nothing more than "pro-cuts". With my thinking, I can't be selected to be on the jury for this trial.

Does anyone own this "pro-cut"?

[otismalibu]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

A pre-season jersey, even if used in exhibitions, is really a glorified practice jersey, as this is what the teams are doing in exhibition games - practicing for the real thing.

I know what you're saying, but no one is going to confuse a practice jersey with a game jersey. Sure it's pre-season, but it's still a game. There's a crowd, refs, box score, etc.

I'd rather have the jersey he was wearing when he made his first basket in a pre-season game, than the jersey he was wearing when he made his first shot at Bulls practice.

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

If it was used in pre-season, it could be the first Bulls game jersey that Jordan was issued and wore in a game (exhibition).

assuming he didn't play in a preseason game wearing the home white first. what a mess. it's not the first jersey, it's not the first regular season jersey, and it's not the first regular season road jersey. clearly the jersey needs to be qualified in terms of exactly what "first" it is. GFC makes no mention whatsoever of preseason vs regular season and in fact the preseason idea is simply one that warren offered as a possibility. i'm not even sure if it's known that jordan's first preseason game was played in a road shirt.

from GFC's description, i think most would believe the jersey is jordan's first regular season gamer. although GFC makes no mention of preseason vs regular season, typically, i think when an item is called "game used" the implicit understanding is that it was used in the regular season and that if the use was limited strictly to the preseason, then such a fact would be made known. steiner offers jerseys that they clearly label as "spring training" because they know there's a big difference between a derek jeter "ST" worn shirt and a jeter regular season gamer in both price and desireability.

i would've thought GFC would've done a little more research and disclosed a little more so that any bidders would know exactly what they're blowing $50k on. at this point, i wonder if the jersey was ever worn during the regular season at all or if it was strictly a pre-season shirt. i think a bidder ought to know if jordan never scored a single official point wearing the $50k jordan gamer he just bought.

rudy.

[sportscentury]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

If it is his first pre-season Bulls jersey, it is worth a ton, but not as much as his first regular season Bulls jersey (i.e., the jersey that he wore in his first official NBA game with the Bulls), the latter of which would be worth far more to most collectors. A pre-season jersey, even if used in exhibitions, is really a glorified practice jersey, as this is what the teams are doing in exhibition games - practicing for the real thing. With this said, if you win this and photomatch it with MeiGray, please email me at rgf2@hotmail.com, as I would love to own it (but only with a true photomatch). Interesting piece, and an absolute killer if real.

[otismalibu]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

anyway you slice it, i fail to see how it can be the "first jersey jordan was issued by the bulls".

If it was used in pre-season, it could be the first Bulls game jersey that Jordan was issued and wore in a game (exhibition).

It would still have some appeal to collectors, simply because it's Jordan. Sure, none of the stats from pre-season count, but no one has ever recorded a point, assist, rebound, etc. wearing warm-ups, yet folks collect them.

I'd take a Dr. J. Rucker league shirt.


Would the Bulls give their #1 pick a recycled jersey?

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

warren and other nba collectors.. so this "first jersey" issue has got me thinking about what qualifies as a player's first jersey and which of his "firsts" would be most desireable.
warren, you believe that even if the GFC jersey was used solely during the preseason then it would still qualify as jordan's first bulls jersey. if you've eliminated the requirement of regular season action to qualify as part of the definition, then technically wouldn't jordan's first bulls jersey most likely be a practice/scrimmage jersey? (those reversible mesh ones). afterall, he probably played in a practice game before any preseason games and i'd think that practice games are just as meaningless as preseason games. would his first bulls practice jersey therefore be more valuable than his first preseason jersey?

in the area of 'first jerseys', i'd think it'd go practice, preseason, regular season and if both you and GFC have eliminated the requirement of a "first jersey" to necessarily including regular season play, then the real "first jersey he was issued by the bulls" would be his practice jersey.

for me, a player's first jersey would require regular season action; the jersey that the player wore in his first regular season game (which in this case would be the home jersey jordan wore on oct 26, 1984 vs washington). practices and preseasons don't count.

if you use your definition, then i'd think his first jersey would be a practice shirt. if you use my definition then it'd be his home shirt from oct 26, 1984. i don't see how the GFC shirt qualifies as any sort of a "first jersey" for jordan. maybe first preseason? anyway you slice it, i fail to see how it can be the "first jersey jordan was issued by the bulls".

rudy.

[nickacs]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

Grr, I hate that we can't edit out posts!!!

Anyways, my mistake, the Oct game is his first game, but it's a home one as you guys said. So, really this jersey would be his "first" road jersey, meaning 2nd regular season game. Unless preseason like some have eluded too.
Either way, I'm just very leary of it... More supporting doc(s) and photomatching to me would make it worth the current bid of $30k...But thats just me

[nickacs]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

His first regular season game was against the Bullets.
I have that DVD somewhere (2nd half only), I could always dig it up if somebody wanted me too.

Yup, Oct 24, 1984.
If anyone is interested, all this Thursday/Friday NBA channel is replaying a bunch of NBA superstars' first NBA game, and of course including Michael Jordan:
7pmEST Thurs 8/26/09 (Replay Fri 1pmEST 8/27/09)

FYI, the other's include a bunch like: Hakeen, Ralph Sampson, Barkley, Karl Malone, Ewing, Reggie Miller, Shaq, Lebron, Garnett, etc etc

Maybe this might help to try and see/photomatch if this is really the first NBA regular season jersey Jordan wore?!

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

i suppose each collector is different. personally, i place far less value on preseason/training camp/spring training jerseys than regular season. of course in this case i understand that if it were preseason only it would still technically be the first jersey he was issued even if it never saw regular season action. i suppose any potential bidders could decide the value for themselves. i do think they ought to know though whether it ever saw regular season action. i think most would interpret the GFC ad to imply that it's jordan's first regular-season gamer. (of course, that would be impossible given that his first ever regular season game was at home). my point was that it's likely not even his first ever regular season road shirt.

anyway, this french guy has this shirt and he calls it a procut:

http://23raisons.free.fr/jersey.html

re: the name/number change
perhaps the bulls kept a separate stash for their preseason games and these shirts routinely had name/number changes?

rudy.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

I think if this can be proven to be Jordan's first pre-season jersey ever worn with the Bulls, it will be the most valuable basketball jersey in history. Can it be proven?
Pre-season or regular season doesn't matter, if it is Jordan's first Bulls jersey.

Could #35 be a pre-season player who never made the final roster? It would be nice to know that Jordan's first professional jersey is still in existence.

The abundance of phony Jordans on the market cause concern for the true legitimate relics. Whether or not this Grey Flannel Jordan is what it is claimed to be.

[kingjammy24]

Re: GFC: 1984 Michael Jordan's "first" jersey

the other thing that perplexes me about the current GFC jersey is the tagging. all of the other 1984 jordan jerseys i've seen had rawlings tags on the outside tail and no tagging in the collar. the GFC jersey has collar tagging and no tail tagging. can any nba collectors offer insight into this variation?



as a buyer i'd want to know if the GFC jersey was used solely in the preseason and also when and where the GFC photo was taken.

rudy.